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  #81  
Old 23.08.2010, 10:10
h8uthemost
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I just came across this myself. First time I've ever used Filefactory and Jdownloader asks me for the captcha. So the plugin just needs an update?
Old 23.08.2010, 12:55
remi
Message deleted by drbits. Reason: Flaming about Google and reCaptcha
Old 23.08.2010, 13:51
Tyop
Message deleted by drbits. Reason: Flaming about Google and reCaptcha
Old 23.08.2010, 14:24
remi
Message deleted by drbits. Reason: Flaming about Google and reCaptcha
  #82  
Old 23.08.2010, 15:52
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I'm sorry for you if you don't understand that this is JDownloader support forum. Not your "scheme" support forum. Go elsewhere, stop spamming here.



Moderator Edit: Several messages in this discussion have been deleted. Flaming is not tolerated in this forum. drbits

Last edited by drbits; 24.08.2010 at 02:49.
  #83  
Old 23.08.2010, 18:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
@ JesterEE,

It is JDownloader.org's policy not to try to break reCaptcha
.

However, your idea is certainly one to try if we were going to try to break reCaptcha.
...
The JD policy is that reCaptcha is too important to the on-line community to break it.
Agreed on all accounts ... apologies as I thought that the numeric audio code was outside of the reCaptcha scheme.

But, while here, I will give my $0.02.
reCaptcha is a great idea and while I think its admorable for the dev team to leave it intact, I believe that it won't matter one way or another. History repeats itself, and current follows the path of least resistence. Meaning, if the mob (all of us) can't access one medium (say because reCaptcha proves too strong), they will switch to another medium. The provider of that medium will either accept their new role as top dog and appease the masses, tank, or switch to a similar mechanism and the mob will again, move to another. When there are no options left to switch to, someone will eventually throw up their arms and undo what this project is trying to keep intact. So really, the Jdownloader stance on not breaking reCaptha is only buying the cipher more time out in the open. It will eventually, and inevitably, fall. Companies like the Big G understand this fact, and I am certain, behind their respective steel curtains they are already cooking something else up to take it's place when it does. It's a vicious cycle.

Ok, flame on!

-JesterEE
  #84  
Old 24.08.2010, 02:25
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You are correct. One of the reasons for not even discussing how to break reCaptcha is that Google keeps tabs on that kind of thing (they read the parts or our board that their software flags). Whenever we have discussed an approach, they have responded within 3 days with changes in how reCaptcha generates its challenge image.

The reason for not breaking reCaptcha-Audio are the same for not breaking reCaptcha. I is to easy to add complexity. Naturally Speaking (the product) could easily recognize the audio. But we also do not want to make things easy for spammers.
  #85  
Old 24.08.2010, 10:30
remi
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You still think that spammers are poor guys that can't afford processes (like paying a few cents to poor people to type in reCaptchas). Professional spammers belong to the power elites of this planet. Gogol only supports them because they belong to the same class.

Gogol annoys and blocks ordinary, non-criminal people, including those with bad eyes.

Note that by deleting my posts, you're only proving that you can't find any logical reason or arguments supporting your thesis.
  #86  
Old 24.08.2010, 10:49
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recaptcha helps google books service to increase his algorythms of OCR.

IMHO i'm very surprised than HF and all of recaptcha hosters are still used coz ppl are too lazy
  #87  
Old 24.08.2010, 12:46
remi
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The fact that Gogol annoys people instead of paying some poor people to recognise words that their OCR software can't recognise, is a shameful practice.

Why don't they use the algorithms of the hacker who hacked reCaptcha? I'm sure they will succeed almost 100%, because Gogol are adding complexity to the unrecognised words and that's on purpose.

It's a discrimination against people with disabilities and in particular blind people. In many countries having disability discrimination acts, Gogol can be sued for this illegal activity.

Recently I've been downloading many HF files, but only few (1%?), at certain (probably busy?) days, had reCaptchas. All my files were bigger than 100 MB with an average size of 200 MB.
  #88  
Old 24.08.2010, 12:51
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Remi:
I'm sorry for you if you don't understand that this is JDownloader support forum. Not your "scheme" support forum. Go elsewhere, stop spamming here.
  #89  
Old 24.08.2010, 13:05
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I'm afraid that it's not spam. It's my opinion about the reCaptcha phenomenon. Please read "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(electronic)" for a definition of spam.

It's not because you don't agree/understand my reasoning that you need to call it spam.

The daily messages/posts the forum receives on i-word products sold by the Pear company, that's spam. They should be filtered.
  #90  
Old 25.08.2010, 01:45
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@ remi,

As I told you privately, that discussion was deleted because it included insulting other members. I moved the discussion here to give you more flexibility.

------------

Please e-mail PSP with the URLs of the posts. He will try to find improvements to the spam filter for the specific spammers. I have not seen these posts, so I cannot report them.

------------

Except as Spiced Pork And Ham, spam has no official definition. Wikipedia.com never claims to be the authority on anything and they are a poor source to use as a reference.

In the context of this forum, spam is defined in the rules. Off-topic or repeated messages are spam under our rules (as it is for almost all boards).

You would be better off arguing your point. Referring to other people in a negative way is not productive.

--------------------------------

Observation tells me that there is nothing special about reCaptcha, except that the challenges are graphic, handwritten by several people, and obfuscated, not textual and there are enough different challenges to make an automated approach much more complex (specific countermeasures are in a different thread).

Google's self aggrandizing announcement about using reCaptcha for improving their OCR of old books was probably part of the initial plan. However, when they increase the obfuscation, they decrease the utility of the results for OCR. At this point, many of the challenge "words" are meaningless gibberish, not real words the OCR could not recognize.

Google is not alone in CAPTCHA. Reread the CAPTCHA list again. uGotFile changed their CAPTCHA challenges to do nasty things to recognition programs (not just fool them, but possibly damage hardware). They are not part of the Google crowd.

Any CAPTCHA is a "No Bots Allowed" sign. JD's browse capability is a Bot. JD can solve some of the riddles and force its way into No Bot territory, but any site that is serious about the No Bots policy can make things hard for JD.

Hotfile, uGotFile, MediaFire, and others have decided they are serious about keeping Bots out of free downloading. It is their right to set standards for use of their site. These storage hosts are not raking in cash. Some of the decryption advertising intermediaries might be making money, but most other companies are not.

I just do not see a conspiracy.
  #91  
Old 29.08.2010, 00:08
Barrbar
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My problem is a same hotfile captcha
  #92  
Old 29.08.2010, 01:44
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Read the first post. There will NOT be a hotfile anti-captcha anytime in the near future.
  #93  
Old 29.08.2010, 11:27
remi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
@ remi,

As I told you privately, that discussion was deleted because it included insulting other members.
After some investigation, here are my 2 deleted posts. Everybody can then analyse them for the presence of insults, because I don't see any.

Quote:
How many times do I need to repeat this? reCaptcha and other blocking/annoying things are made to stop non-criminal people. Gogol collaborates with the powerful elites of this planet and blocks/annoys people who can't afford to pay.
If you mean my first sentence, then I see this type of remarks on a daily basis, maybe in other words or set in bigger size characters. They mostly refer to the (re)Captcha or the board rules threads.

Quote:
I'm sorry for you if you don't understand the scheme.
I felt sorry for member Tyop. Is feeling sorry for someone considered an insult in your country? I think this is very subjective. Please, also note the presence of . This means that it was a joke.

As long as people don't threaten each other, I would be very careful with this type of censorship because there are many differences between cultures and people. Also types of humour differ tremendously. Since this board is read by people from all over the world you need to be careful in trying to impose your own rules of conduct.

What your government calls "peace-keeping" is considered as occupation, torture, deportation, illegal imprisonment, robbery of resources, slavery and war crimes by those families who lost some or all of their children or parents.

Here's what the jurisprudence of U.S. constitutional law says about insults :-

Quote:
speech containing literary, artistic, political, or scientific significance cannot be suppressed, even if wantonly and maliciously insulting, demeaning, or even inciting of racial, ethnic, religious or sexual hatred; there is no "right to be unoffended" in the United States.
If you want to chase independently thinking people, i.e., people who don't think like you, from this forum, your role is perfect. I'm free and I can go elsewhere, but I hope you and others won't regret it.
  #94  
Old 29.08.2010, 14:56
Tyop
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I won't regret it.
  #95  
Old 29.08.2010, 15:32
remi
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Thanks, that's what I wanted.

I'm sorry but this is a management decision. I think management are wise enough to decide.

Here is your post that was deleted. Tyop wrote :-

Quote:
I think that you really stop repeating it. It is support forum, not "crazy french thief ideology" forum.
Simply, stop writing about your feelings or mental problems. It doesn't help anybody, except your mind.
Please, provide some links where you gave support to other customers.

I was not writing about my feelings but about a theory. As long as you can't refute it, the theory stays.
  #96  
Old 29.08.2010, 16:39
Tyop
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Remi, giving support doesn't make you more important than you think. This is still JDownloader support forum, not your private support forum. If you can't understand this, sorry, it is your private problem. Yes, I understand that you don't understand and you don't need to write another unnecessary post. Bye, bye.
  #97  
Old 29.08.2010, 18:10
willemijns
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i do not appreciate this part of sentence in bold.
This is support forum, not "crazy french thief ideology" forum.

Maybe remi is a QC people... my level in EN is not sufficient to understand the deep thread but whatever opinions
everybody must stop generic insult about countres

Sébastien WILLEMIJNS. France.

end of thread about this racism.
  #98  
Old 29.08.2010, 22:05
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Please stop discussing about offtopic stuff here.

@willemijns
We don't have any racists here and if we do they won't be long with us
Jokes about other countries are no big deal these days, as long as everybody understands them, don't take everything seriously.

@remi
I just have to defend you in this case.
I really like you and your English knowings.
None of your posts will be edited/censored by me, that's for sure but as you can see it seems like the others want to discuss about reCaptcha only here so let's do just that.
---
Our topic is reCaptcha, please only discuss about that here!

GreeZ pspzockerscene
EDIT

I hope my English of this post is understandable, Think3r always finds my mistakes :D
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  #99  
Old 30.08.2010, 22:35
mikezilla2 mikezilla2 is offline
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Question would it be possible to incorprate "WebVisum" in to jdownloader ?

for those of you that don't no what it is -
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
and yea it really works even for google captcas.
  #100  
Old 30.08.2010, 22:46
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Hey drbits/remi i'm actually quite busy but maybe you could make a little list of services that have reCaptcha recognition or that offer it for money so our team could implement such services.
I asked the others and i didn't get a "100% declined" response so it would be good to collect such services

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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  #101  
Old 30.08.2010, 22:50
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just so you konw that add-on i posted is 100% free , and dos just as it says once signed up ( just need to request an invite from them ) should arrive back within 24 hours - , it bascily sends a query to there sever i think and from there it pastes it to the clip borad with in 30 seconds , im relly fed up with hotfile ( and yea it worked on hotfile) so implementing such a thing ether in to JD or having it work in conjunction with it would be great
  #102  
Old 31.08.2010, 05:47
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@PSP,
I have no knowledge of these sites. I am just reading about them in this forum.

@mikezilla2,
Thank you for the information. We would need something that redirected the output from the clipboard to the keyboard input for JDownloader (we use the clipboard for other things). However, such a script should be relatively easy if we have an addon to allow for the interface (Feature 2022).

That addon will probably have to be written by a user.
  #103  
Old 31.08.2010, 10:53
remi
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@psp and the beloved anti-captcha team

I've never searched for these services, but a few days ago our amazing customer upalse posted a remarkable message with the title "maybe a quick hack for this?". It contains 2 sites that you can already start with. I think they're the top of the iceberg as I believe this is a booming business in areas where automated recognition techniques aren't sufficient.

I would also study the algorithms of our friend Chad Houck who cracked reCaptcha. They might be easy to integrate in jD. I'm sure you're at least as curious as I'm, but you might be able to provide some technical feasibility feedback. ("**External links are only visible to Support Staff**)
  #104  
Old 31.08.2010, 15:23
mikezilla2 mikezilla2 is offline
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
@PSP,
I have no knowledge of these sites. I am just reading about them in this forum.

@mikezilla2,
Thank you for the information. We would need something that redirected the output from the clipboard to the keyboard input for JDownloader (we use the clipboard for other things). However, such a script should be relatively easy if we have an addon to allow for the interface (Feature 2022).

That addon will probably have to be written by a user.
well at the end of the day youd want it to be automated IE not much effort from the user , you could have a choice of modes ( one via the keyboard ) and one via the clip board - you could set it up as an " i macro " of sorts to copy and auto enter , from using the addon you need to wait 30 seconds before entering it in again ( it could just be a limitation on the addon ) or the sever , it copys the code via a hot key thats mapped to the board , whats Feature 2022 ? hope your not refering to the year , still when you say a user you mean not someone on the dev team ? it could be that end users need there own ACC for what ever service you implement provided its free ....

**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff** ( old)

Last edited by mikezilla2; 31.08.2010 at 19:34.
  #105  
Old 31.08.2010, 15:31
remi
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Feature 2022 :-

  #106  
Old 03.09.2010, 09:22
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Default automatic captcha doesn't work,help

Last time I used jdownloader was 3-4 months ago and then I remember that automatic captcha worked fine.Now it doesn't work not even on hotfile,oron,fileserve,and it's quite anoying to sit in front of a computer and input those letters.Any help guys,maybe something is screwed.
  #107  
Old 03.09.2010, 10:44
remi
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Shhhhhttt. Please, read captcha thread before the mods destroy your thread.

reCaptcha has been cracked, but the algorithms have not yet been implemented by jD's Team.

See also "**External links are only visible to Support Staff**.
  #108  
Old 03.09.2010, 10:49
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Read the first post of the Captcha thread.

Those sites use reCaptcha and that is too hard for automatic captcha. Hotfile has used reCaptcha since November 2009.
  #109  
Old 03.09.2010, 10:56
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"reCaptcha has been cracked, but the algorithms have not yet been implemented by jD's Team."
i am very certain we will not try to port the algo, because
1.) recognition rate is too low
2.) if the word is missing in db it fails
3.) google just needs to change something (and im sure they are working on that right now) and then all the port work is useless.
we will think about adding support once a very good algo is found that also is able to adapt to google changes.
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  #110  
Old 03.09.2010, 11:16
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Google has added at least one new obfuscation method in the past two days (White on Black with little or no border).
  #111  
Old 03.09.2010, 12:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
"reCaptcha has been cracked, but the algorithms have not yet been implemented by jD's Team."
i am very certain we will not try to port the algo, because
1.) recognition rate is too low
2.) if the word is missing in db it fails
3.) google just needs to change something (and im sure they are working on that right now) and then all the port work is useless.
we will think about adding support once a very good algo is found that also is able to adapt to google changes.
1) my recognition rate of some of the other captcha systems is also very low (often lower than Houck's algorithms), but after many tries I mostly get a captcha that is easier to read. I've had reCaptchas with Greek and even Chinese characters. Although I can read the Greek characters, I don't know how to type them on my keyboard. The Chinese characters are completely unreadable by 5 billion people on this planet. They prove my theory that Gogol are just making dumb idiots of us. We should protest and boycott this devilish corporate monster!

2) I can understand that it would be technically too difficult for the jD Team to implement Houck's solution. Also hiring Houck to explain and integrate his algorithms in jD might be too expensive. If jD doesn't implement them decaptcher.com, deathbycaptcha.com and many others will implement them. That means we (and not only the visually impaired and blind people who are discriminated) might have to pay for these services. Based on what I read from jD's Team members I predict this scenario will happen and these anticaptcha businesses will boom and will see their profits raise the more Gogol can raise its annoyance threshold. Again a proof of my theory about Gogol that I won't repeat here.

3) I read in one article that Houck's algorithms were immune to those changes, because he went himself through several changes/generations himself. I think he'll make them always more intelligent as a reaction to Gogol's additions of complications to a point that only computers will be able to recognise them.

30 years ago nobody believed that chess computers would ever reign over chess. Chess for centuries was the example par excellence of superior intelligence, tactical and strategic thinking, planning and game pattern recognition. Weather forecasting, rocket launching, and thousands of other domains of human knowledge/intelligence have been taken over by computers. We're just staring at these exploits in disbelieve. But computers have just made their first baby steps, as nano, quantum, self-learning, self-adaptation and other new computing techniques will mean giant leaps for computer intelligence.

Now, the same has happened to reading, but some people still don't want to believe it, because they still believe humans are superior or must be obedient slaves of the monopolistic Gogol tyranny. Reality tells us that the last illusion man had, i.e., superior intelligence, has evaporated.
  #112  
Old 03.09.2010, 12:51
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lets wait and see how the whole anticaptcha for recaptcha develops. i don't think that such services will able to handle recaptcha good enough. cpu power usage is too high in order to serve many clients. client based anticaptcha is still the best solution.
at the moment we simply dont have time to port the algo.
and im sure there are many ppl out there that are willing to pay for anticaptcha because that way they are not bound to a single hoster.
but overall i always suggest to buy premium as its the easiest/fastest/best solution.
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  #113  
Old 04.09.2010, 06:49
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thx , well that was filed about 2 months ago , around how long would something like that take to code in ? im thinking 6 months
  #114  
Old 04.09.2010, 09:32
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Never forget if XXcaptcha or YYcaptcha (or even ZZcaptcha is cracked, the number of spams will increase... this thread is a "never ending story" ! each ppl repeat again and again his point of vue and it is anooying !!! best solution is the external plugin.
  #115  
Old 04.09.2010, 09:34
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by willemijns View Post
blah blah blah


yea im not sure you understood me.
  #116  
Old 04.09.2010, 10:49
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Did i answered exclusively to you ? no !
Did i answered exclusively to your answer ? no !

to replace the clipboard, the best solution is to open a TCP port and offers a small HTTP server which displays captcha images and a form to sent in POST or GET to JD the displayed code you just typed with your fingers.... now i answer to you and purpose a idea !
  #117  
Old 04.09.2010, 10:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willemijns View Post
Did i answered exclusively to you ? no !
Did i answered exclusively to your answer ? no !

to replace the clipboard, the best solution is to open a TCP port and offers a small HTTP server which displays captcha images and a form to sent in POST or GET to JD the displayed code you just typed with your fingers.... now i answer to you and purpose a idea !
ah now where getting somewhere , see if you read my comments again youl notice i was never talking about cracking anything but rather about coding existing hacks.
  #118  
Old 04.09.2010, 11:06
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open a specific http port is a hack ^^ use of clipboard for exchange informations is not a mandatory way.
  #119  
Old 04.09.2010, 11:07
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Sorry for interfering in this discussion, but if I understand this WebVisum.com site well (I admit I didn't read much), this mechanism could be used by jD as well. I understood WebVisum.com's servers support automatic anti-captcha techniques.

jD's customers could also solve each other's captchas. In exchange for the number of captchas they solve they get the same number of captcha resolutions from other members. That means that customers do not need to attend their downloads during the night or when they are away from their computers.

What do you think guys or did I steal someone's idea?

Last edited by remi; 04.09.2010 at 11:10.
  #120  
Old 04.09.2010, 11:15
mikezilla2 mikezilla2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remi View Post
Sorry for interfering in this discussion, but if I understand this WebVisum.com site well (I admit I didn't read much), this mechanism could be used by jD as well. I understood WebVisum.com's servers support automatic anti-captcha techniques.

jD's customers could also solve each other's captchas. In exchange for the number of captchas they solve they get the same number of captcha resolutions from other members. That means that customers do not need to attend their downloads during the night or when they are away from their computers.

What do you think guys or did I steal someone's idea?
sounds fair in a away , thats not quite what web visum is tho ( note is also limted to a few codes per day ) i was thinking jdownloader . org could host there own version on there own sever
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