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  #1  
Old 27.02.2011, 15:58
remi
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Cool Handling of anti-captcha methods

Let's first try to understand this remarkable post in the reCaptcha thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
@remi
No we do officially support captcha-recognitions but the settings were removed more than half a year ago because we thought no one would use them.
Does this mean that the jD Team officially support non-official add-ons like these anti-captcha (the 'Spanish' automatic recognition, the decaptcher, the CT and any other) methods?

I must admit I've never seen a function in jD for choosing the method for captcha handling on a per host basis. If it existed why was it removed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
Also we haven't received many complains yet.
Complaints about the removal of the settings I wrote about or what settings are you talking about?

I would like to propose the following overall design. If an internal method exists and it works, jD should use this method, otherwise it would search for an external method using the following priorities :-

1) first the automatic anti-captcha methods,

2) then the non-paying or mutual anti-captcha solving methods,

3) and finally the paying methods.

If the customer would enable manual captcha recognition then all the other methods would be overridden. Note that the term "disable automatic captcha recognition" would be useless, since CT also has a mutual captcha solving method that just shifts manual captcha solving in time. The cost for that shift is that customers have to solve many more captchas than in normal manual mode.

Note that I still make the distinction between internal and external, because I'm still thinking that the jD Team makes a distinction between these two types.
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  #2  
Old 27.02.2011, 16:49
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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@remi
It's easy.
Our captchasystem allows the use of external/"homemade" or "inofficial" captcharecognitions.
If a method is found for a hoster it will be used, no matter how and if it works!

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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  #3  
Old 28.02.2011, 01:14
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This is partly a matter of JD being open source. You can write any plugins you want, but you are responsible for supporting them, not the JD staff.

Each JAC (Java Anti-Captcha) plugin has a file listing the hosts to use it with. You can control what method is used to provide JAC answers for a site.

There is currently no way for JDownloader to deal with multiple methods for the same host.
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  #4  
Old 28.02.2011, 11:32
remi
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Cool

OK, I see we're again singing the same note now.

I think a property for the JAC method based on the classification I made in my first post would help. The customer can then set the priorities when different methods for the same host would clash.

Managing the clashing methods by editing the .xml files is not a good option for most customers.
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  #5  
Old 28.02.2011, 14:32
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
There is currently no way for JDownloader to deal with multiple methods for the same host.
There IS a way.
Usually a hosterplugin asks for a captcha and then gets it from the method in which's jacinfo there is the name of the hosterplugin BUT hosterplugins can also request captchas from captchamethods

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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Captcha FAQ EN || Captcha FAQ DE || Erste Schritte & Tutorials
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-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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  #6  
Old 28.02.2011, 14:49
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i'm sorry psp, but jd cannot handle multiple methods for a single plugin
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  #7  
Old 28.02.2011, 15:10
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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@Jiaz
But plugins can request captchas directly from methods.
I haven't ever tried it but i know that it has been designed to also work this way^^
I'm sorry for telling wrong information.

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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How to create a log || Wie man einen Log erstellt
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-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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  #8  
Old 28.02.2011, 15:34
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yes but that has nothing to do with using several methods^^
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  #9  
Old 28.02.2011, 15:49
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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So do we need a ticket for this ?
There aren't many services using different captchas and for those we can use my method above ?!

GreeZ pspzockerscene
EDIT

Actually not many users are using other methods than the ones that come with JD so i don't know if it's worth adding new settings.
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How to create a log || Wie man einen Log erstellt
Captcha FAQ EN || Captcha FAQ DE || Erste Schritte & Tutorials
JDownloader 2 Setup Download
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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  #10  
Old 07.03.2011, 13:18
gab1545 gab1545 is offline
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I have to say that as a beginner this is at best a little confusing! If one could nominate one method over another in the settings somewhere this would be very useful.
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  #11  
Old 24.03.2011, 14:37
celerondude celerondude is offline
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Hi, I'd love a setting to choose which captcha-method to use, too.

I'm using the CaptchaTrader-method at night or when I'm not at the computer for some other reason, but at day I'm absolutely fine solving those captchas by hand.
An option to quickly change between manual and the external method would be great!


At this time, I'm each time fiddling in "jacinfo.xml" commenting al the hosters out and restarting jDownloader afterwards - but that's not a good solution.
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  #12  
Old 25.03.2011, 11:05
remi
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by celerondude View Post
I'm each time fiddling in "jacinfo.xml" commenting al the hosters out
You don't need to change the contents of that file. I think just renaming that file might be sufficient.
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  #13  
Old 25.03.2011, 16:07
celerondude celerondude is offline
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Yes, you're right. I even figured out, that you don't have to restart JDownloader for the change to take effect.
It's suficent to rename the "jacinfo.xml", when you don't want to use the method and to restore it's name if you want to use it again.

I therefore wrote a small batch script renaming the file back and forth to quickly toggle the CaptchaTrader-method on and off.

Nonetheless it would be nice to have some possibilites to control the usage of captcha methods from inside JD, e.g.
  • Switch specific methods on/off.
  • Switch all external methods on/off.
  • Control the priority of methods, e.g. internal methods have higher priority than external methods, so if there's an internal and an external method use the internal.
  • Explicitly select which method is used for a specific hoster.
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  #14  
Old 30.03.2011, 08:32
danutz
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So is there any rule as to the order in which anti-captcha methods are tried, if multiple methods are available for a host -- hopefully it's not random? Alphabetical order of method names at least ?
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  #15  
Old 30.03.2011, 10:53
remi
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If you're a java programmer you might have a look at the source code. It's an open source project.
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  #16  
Old 30.03.2011, 11:47
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there is currently no support for multiple methods for a captcha and at the moment we dont have plans/time to change this
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  #17  
Old 30.03.2011, 13:18
danutz
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Yeah, I have the code and will soon start on it, time permitting. This will probably be somewhere deep in the guts of JD though.

But it has dawned on me that method preference could be implemented outside JD. We can replace all external anti-recaptcha methods with a single "dispatcher" method/plugin (with an appropriate JAX XML).

That "dispatcher" (a python, C++ or whatever program) can implement logic to decide which "real" method to call. As it fails to solve the captcha, JD will call it repeatedly. It can save its status in some file and decide what to do. For example it can decide to try the Spanish anti-captcha 10 times, than cough up some CaptchaTrader credits, then (if no credits) pop-up a dialog of itself (outside JD!)

The only problem that I foresee is that JD often disables a link with bogus "Plugin out of date" errors. This needs to be worked around in JD -- we need something like "always reset plugin-out-of-date errors".
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  #18  
Old 30.03.2011, 13:38
remi
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Yes, why not.

If I were you I would also use the Spanish anti-captcha method for obtaining captchatrader credits and call it the Jiaznutz approach to captchas.
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  #19  
Old 30.03.2011, 13:46
danutz
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Maybe humor is not my strong point today, remi What do you mean?

What you proposed (as a joke?) actually does make some sense, because it would consolidate both the gathering and spending of credits: gather via CT (both automatically and manually) and spend via JD (only via the CT plugin). I'm not sure if CT would be happy about such a poor captcha-solver -- they might ban the account.

But I'm feeling that you ACTUALLY meant to make fun of my scheme as being overly complicated, and a poor man's solution for something that JD should handle itself?
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  #20  
Old 30.03.2011, 14:14
remi
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Cool

I take your suggestions very seriously and they show very clearly that you're a smart guy.

No, the first part of my sentence is meant to be taken seriously and the second part is meant to be funny. I'm sorry for the confusion. I would rather call it the Spanish Jiaznutz approach.

You're right that CT accounts could be banned because of too many bad recognitions, but if the recognition attempts are good enough, the CT credits could be used in cases like fileserve that allows only 3 tries or in cases where the automatic recognitions don't work at all.

In my post #15 I gave an answer to your question about what jD is actually doing. Does it overwrite successive methods when it's parsing the xml files or does it simply take the first method it finds for a given host?

Note that the Spanish method might only recognise reCaptcha and no other types of captchas. I've never used CT nor the Spanish anti-captcha methods. Is it possible to be selective as to what types of captchas you want to solve on CT and can the different captcha types be differentiated by the Spanish method?
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