[Gweilo]

Is this where we discuss the Alpha?
I have build 16116

If so, some comments:

on installing the alpha, most of my settings were retained, but it seem to have lost the password list (archive passwords).
Is there a backup that can be restored from?


Interface: Can I see the host names, and not the icons? I don't recognise all the company logos, I just want to see the names.

And please: HOSTER IS NOT AN ENGLISH WORD
Look in a dictionary; look in EVERY dictionary: _**External links are only visible to Support Staff**
The noun is the same as the verb: "host".
Whether you're referring to a computer or an army or the host of angels, it's just HOST.

_**External links are only visible to Support Staff**
_**External links are only visible to Support Staff**

host
A computer that functions as the beginning and end point of data transfers. It is most commonly thought of as the place where your Web site resides. An Internet host has a unique Internet address (IP address) and a unique domain name or host name. A host can also refer to a Web hosting company.

Please change all instances of "hoster" in the English interface to "host".

[raztoki]

hoster is a term derived by jdownloader just like the term decrypter (different plugin type names), these are names and do not have to comply with any language definition of said single/plural terms

I believe I've been told that our next major version (current branch name 'alpha') will require a entire fresh install as many parts if not all of the configs are not transferable. Some of the current 'beta' nightly branch uses part of the new config system but not all. This should be resolved by the time we make a public alpha release.

The icons i agree should have at least a mouse over so you can determine which are what. The problem with text is it takes up too much space within the table view. Coalado might be able to include an advanced option to allow text vs icon, if a user prefers it that way.

Alpha/svn version is far from complete and does contain many bugs (mainly GUI related), we do not recommend its use for the general public at this stage.

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by raztoki

hoster is a term derived by jdownloader just like the term decrypter (different plugin type names), these are names and do not have to comply with any language definition of said single/plural terms

It's not "single/plural"; it's noun/verb,

It is not a different meaning to the normal word "host".

It is not a "plugin". It refers to the actual file hosts such as Rapidshare.

"Decrypt" is a verb. "Decrypter" is an acceptable, commonly used, derivation of that as a noun.

But HOST IS ALREADY A NOUN. "Hoster" I guess comes from German. It's just wrong and unnecessary in English and should not be used in the English interface.

Originally Posted by raztoki

The icons i agree should have at least a mouse over so you can determine which are what. The problem with text is it takes up too much space on the table view. Coalado might be able to include an advanced option to allow text vs icon, if a user prefers it that way.

Alpha/svn version is far from complete and does contain many bugs (mainly GUI related), we do not recommend its use for the general public at this stage.

The icons do have tooltip. I don't want to have to mouse over the list to read each host name one by one.

It doesn't help to save space if I don't recognise the icons. I want words, not hieroglyphs. There is plenty of room. The filenames are often dozens of characters long.

The GUI seems to prioritise looking cool rather than providing information.

I know what an Alpha is. I know it's not meant for general release.


And still my original question "Is this where we discuss the Alpha"?

[raztoki]

I probably should have said dictionary meaning over single/plural. Names can be spelt what ever way the author intended (no different to a persons first name, spelling changed all the time). These names/terms are generally specific to jdownloader, they have meaning our program. I'm actually for having a single term throughout the different language settings on specific terms used by jdownloader like hoster/decrypter/linkgrabber etc.. Though that might be only my opinion, others in the development team might or might not agree with my stance. Originally these names/terms would have come from German reference, as majority of the programmers are from Germany. That said the GUI is not finalised by any means much work still required before public release.

With icons you are welcome to adjust the source code if you want. But your wants might not meet up with the wants of the development team. I can only suggest to coalado, to give a advanced option for this type of alternative display. But when it comes down to it its entirely his choice to do so or not. Icons do save space within the table view, it might not save you time if your not familiar with hoster icons/images and those are two seperate things.

You can discuss alpha within this parent thread if you want. At this stage we will be creating a new parent thread when public release happens, this should coincide with a new branch name. Until recently we haven't had many posts to justify a new parent thread. We encourage programmers/developers who wish to contribute too jdownloader development process to jump on our development IRC channel (irc.freenode.net #jdteam) and ask any specific programming type of questions there.

The warning was just that. In no way was I able to read your mind, or know you level of understanding with this release. Hence why I gave a general warning not only for your benefit, but for others.

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by raztoki

I probably should have said dictionary meaning over single/plural. Names can be spelt what ever way the author intended (no different to a persons first name, spelling changed all the time).

This is not the 17th Century. Now we have standard spelling of words and dictionaries that formalise this.
Variants in names are not at all the same issue.

"Hoster" is a German word, not English. Everything else in the English interface is in more or less correct English.
Why the disregard for "dictionary meanings"? Why the attachment to this pidgin term?

These names/terms are generally specific to jdownloader, they have meaning our program.

If you are making up a new term for a new concept, that makes sense. File host is not a new concept, not "specific to JD".

I'm actually for having a single term throughout the different language settings on specific terms used by jdownloader like hoster/decrypter/linkgrabber etc..

Where would that leave users who, for instance, read Chinese only?
The more subtle problems come in cases like this, when the words in different languages are similar enough to be confused. Sometimes words in different languages look similar, but have quite different meanings.

If that's what you want, might as well insist all users of JD be fluent in German.

That said the GUI is not finalised by any means much work still required before public release.

Which is why I'm making this point now.

Is it possible to consider this and not just defend the current usage?

With icons you are welcome to adjust the source code if you want. But your wants might not meet up with the wants of the development team.

I'm not a Java coder.
Almost every program gives you a choice of icons or word in a toolbar.
When there are hundreds of file hosts, all with their own logo, how am I supposed to know what some tiny symbol means? I never visit their webpages, that's why I use JD. Why should I want to see their company logo?
They're decorative, not informative.

[Think3r]

We already discussed about the "Hoster-Host" issue. I guess it won't be a problem to change that word.
The JD staff will discuss this issue and tell you later.
Greetz

[Gweilo]

Okay, some bugs:

How do you move a link from Linkgrabber to Download list?

The only way I can see is right-click "Start download". That moves AND starts the download.
Often I just want to validate links and move them to the list and start the download later.

Anyway, when I did do "Start download" for a 339 MB file, JD refused to start it, giving the error message "Not enough harddiskspace". There is 767 MB free space on the download drive. "Force download" gave the same result.

I tried again; JD did not say "file already on download list", it made a duplicate entry.

So I gave up and used the browser to download.

Here's the error log, but I can't see any details about this in it.
http://jdownloader.org/pastebin/77452

Originally Posted by Gweilo

Okay, some bugs:

How do you move a link from Linkgrabber to Download list?

The only way I can see is right-click "Start download". That moves AND starts the download.
Often I just want to validate links and move them to the list and start the download later.

Unmark the 'Autostart Download' under Quick Settings and you're done.

MfG David

Edit: And before you ask, the feature acted the same way in the Stable and Nightly release.

[raztoki]

@Gweilo

check out the advanced settings, use the filter 'freespace' its in GB and set to 0. I'd have a good look at those settings see if you need to adjust any, as most settings are within that now.

linkgrabber right filter pane has quick settings you can adjust, you can add links via
right click context 'add to download list'. OR
under the filter pane 'add to download list' button, or its submenus. OR
on the filter pane you can add the links from highlighted group by right clicking also

Sorry been at work all day so I haven't had better chance to comment on your previous posts for some time. The translation addon will/has been (not sure) rewritten and nothing has been translated for this new version yet, it's still work in progress as explained. Though I personally don't see a problem with the term 'hoster' myself *grins*. It still might change but end of the day its minor piece of text which isn't a bug. I wasn't having a go at you earlier was just stating how the term is used by jdownloaders developers.

As you can see with this version we have been trying to simply the interface while still holding onto it's powerful features. The linkgrabber redesign allows for huge flexibility at the lower end of the user base up to the power users. Have a play around with link grabber filters + package customer. We now accept wild cards or regular expression within fields which I think will help users who do not understand regular expressions.

I've looked at your logs, and noticed that you're running java 1.6 this version requires java 1.7 so you might want to grab that. I'm using _3 seems to be okie. If you don't want your system paths been nuked with 1.7 try and find non installer based option, and start jd via command line, something like this (default memory var is 512) "c:\java_1.7_3\bin\javaw.exe" -jar "c:\jdownloader-alpha\jdownloader.jar"

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Davidh2k

Unmark the 'Autostart Download' under Quick Settings and you're done.

"Quick settings"? I can't see that on any menu, or in the main "Settings" panel.

I found "Autostart download" under "Download Management".
The only setting there is "Autostart downloads at application start". The desription is about continuing downloads interrupted by JD closing. No mention of new packages.
So I'll make that "never".


## EDIT: Found the "Quick settings" in the "Views".
Didn't see it since it's only visible if you have the Linkgrabber open.

Shouldn't ALL settings be found in the "Settings" panels?

Originally Posted by Davidh2k

Edit: And before you ask, the feature acted the same way in the Stable and Nightly release.

Not in my experience.
If there were no current downloads, moving a package to the download pane did not start download unless there was already a download running. Maybe there was a setting I changed years ago, if so, sorry.

[Gweilo]

Here's an example of how helpful it is to have icons instead of names for the "Hosters" (sic).

This is a set of mirror links.
When the link is disabled, most of them turn into grey boxes.

So if one download is very slow and I want to abort it and try a different host, I have to mouse over each and every one and see which host it is before I can choose the one I want.

There is some detail visible as grey on grey if you have eagle eyes I suppose.

But please just give the option of showing text instead of icons.


# Another bug:
When I paste in a set of links JD accepts them and asks for a download folder. It has no memory of previous folders to choose from, I have to laboriously select the folder from the top level.
Then it parses the links and creates a package, but it ignores the download folder I just selected and puts them in the default folder, I have to choose it all over again.

Originally Posted by Gweilo

"Quick settings"? I can't see that on any menu, or in the main "Settings" panel.

I found "Autostart download" under "Download Management".
The only setting there is "Autostart downloads at application start". The desription is about continuing downloads interrupted by JD closing. No mention of new packages.
So I'll make that "never".


## EDIT: Found the "Quick settings" in the "Views".
Didn't see it since it's only visible if you have the Linkgrabber open.

Shouldn't ALL settings be found in the "Settings" panels?



Not in my experience.
If there were no current downloads, moving a package to the download pane did not start download unless there was already a download running. Maybe there was a setting I changed years ago, if so, sorry.

I See you found it already, and yes you're right, i was wrong - if no downloads were running, the links were just added. It seems the jD lacks this feature at the moment or the team wanted to remove the feature right away?

For the placement of this Settings, you made a good point here, but I rather have the settings placed at the linkgrabber as in the settings. But as you see some Settings are placed twice in the new Jdownloader so maybe they could be added in the Settings too.

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Davidh2k

But as you see some Settings are placed twice in the new Jdownloader so maybe they could be added in the Settings too.

All settings should be under "Settings", wherever else they are found as well.
(And not just as obscure "advanced" settings that you need a cheat sheet to find or understand.)

Apparently missing: any way to delete dead or completed links.
There are buttons in the stable version.


I'm afraid I find this alpha just too alpha and clumsy to use with no "must have" features to make it worth the trouble.

william shakespeare

“O all you host of heaven!O Earth! waht else?
And shall i couple hell? O Fie! Hold, hold, my heart
And you, my sinews, grow not instant old,
But bear me stiffly up. Remember thee?
Ay, thou poor ghost, while memmory holds a seat
In this distracted globe. Remember thee?
Yea, from the table of my memory
I'll wipe away all trivial fond records,
All saws of books, all forms, all pressures past
That youth and observation copied there,
And thy commandment all alone shall live
Within the book and volume of my brain,
Unmixed with baser matter; yes, by heaven!”
― William Shakespeare, Hamlet

It was an invented word just like all of the words in all of the languages and it should never have been used in the scientific computer world at the first place.

So whats wrong if the team is being innovative ? and changing a made up word to hoster ?

The people at the head of the heritage dictionary do it everyday.

.....................

Also you can customize the files with the packagizer so that you can see text instead of the logo.

Erm, whats the new webinterface port? 8765 no longer works, and in the settings tab i cannot set it.

MfG David

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Freeloader

So whats wrong if the team is being innovative ? and changing a made up word to hoster ?

What innovative new meaning is expressed by "hoster" that is not perfectly expressed by the existing word "host"?
(e.g., _**External links are only visible to Support Staff**
Coining new words to express new meanings is how the language grows. This isn't a new meaning.

This is simply a mistake.
=======================================
Oxford Dictionary

host Computing.
a. In full host computer, host system. A computer which mediates (usu. multiple) access to files mounted on it, or provides other services to a network of other computers or terminals. Cf. server n., mainframe n.
1966 C. J. Sippl Computer Dict. & Handbk. (1967) 142/2 Host computer, a computer that is connected to a stored-program multiplexor and which is the base or independent computer upon which the multiplexor is dependent for certain vital functions as program read-in, etc.
1970 Sci. Jrnl. Oct. 63/1 The multi-access computers, known as ‘hosts’, communicate with the nearest IMP [sc. Interface Message Processor] of the ARPA network which permits a subscriber at one host computer to communicate with another host, offering services different from his own host machine.

b. An institution which operates such a computer.
1982 A. J. Meadows et al. Dict. New Information Technol. 85/2 Host, (sometimes also called an information spinner, information vendor, or on-line retailer) a host is an entrepreneur who makes available a number of databases through his own computer.
1986 Pract. Computing Oct. 108/3 The number of computer databases available to the public is now well over 2,500, from several hundred different hosts.
==================

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Martha39

The people at the head of the heritage dictionary do it everyday.

Lexicographers don't make up words, they record their use. So your statement isn't true about any word.

Get back to me when when they put "hoster" in the Heritage Dictionary.

Originally Posted by Gweilo

Lexicographers don't make up words, they record their use. So your statement isn't true about any word.

Get back to me when when they put "hoster" in the Heritage Dictionary.

Its a bot. Banned. Hoster is a germanic word it comes from Germanic languages the mother of all.

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Freeloader

Its a bot. Banned. Hoster is a germanic word it comes from Germanic languages the mother of all.

"Hoster" is a German form, but the root is Latin.

Etymology: < Old French oste, hoste (12th cent. in Littré), modern French hôte host, guest = Italian oste < Latin hospit-em (hospes ) host, guest, stranger, foreigner.

whats your source ? My source sais

Origin:
1275–1325; Middle English hoste < Late Latin hostia Eucharistic wafer ( Latin: victim, sacrifice); replacing Middle English oyst < Middle French oiste < Late Latin, as above

and now its host ? and became hoster lol. Bid deal

[bici-boci]

Originally Posted by Freeloader

and now its host ? and became hoster lol. Bid deal

Huh - is hoster big deal ? Is this word needed for jd ? I don't think. "Hoster" is a simple error - it would be better to forget it.

Originally Posted by bici-boci

Huh - is hoster big deal ? Is this word needed for jd ? I don't think. "Hoster" is a simple error - it would be better to forget it.

I have another suggestion to this problem, lets create a new language and implement it to JD and during the users adaptation period we can remove the existing ones. Then this discussion will also become obsolete.

Im just teasing you , thinker already stated that it would change.

and ohh boy I thought I was the only perfectionist

I dont want to put more oil in the fire.... but even in the english wikipedia they refer to jdownloader in one sentence with one-click hosters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_ho...-click_hosting

In the article both host's and hosters are mentioned...

MfG David

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by Freeloader

whats your source ? My source sais

Oxford English Dictionary.

Both source it to Latin, just give different amounts of detail of intermediate forms.

Originally Posted by Davidh2k

I dont want to put more oil in the fire.... but even in the english wikipedia they refer to jdownloader in one sentence with one-click hosters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_ho...-click_hosting

In the article both host's and hosters are mentioned...

Any idiot can edit Wikipedia. That's its great strength, and great weakness.
10 minutes later it can say the opposite.
You'd fail if you cited it in a university thesis.

But note that the article is called "File hosting service", not "file hosters".
And it's quoting "Janko Roettgers", who sounds like he might be German, if you'll excuse my ethnic stereotyping.

Like I said, get back to me when you find it in a real English dictionary.

[raztoki]

gweilo just drop the hoster/host topic, you'd had your say and we are fully aware of your stance.

You can argue/debate all you like, still isn't going to achieve your desired outcome if you want it as 'host'. This branch is highly developmental and is without any language translation work. For all we know GUI/Text displays might change, but it most likely wont. As stated in my reasons above (if you agree or don't, I really don't care), the use of 'hoster' &or 'decrypter' within jdownloader context complies with names we use. End of the day it does NOT make any difference to how jdownloader works. If you'd like to split hairs go do it else where.

Any questions relating to alpha you can ask here. I'll make a known bug thread later today, of the bugs that I'm aware of. And we can use this thread for more general questions / conversations about this coming release.

[bici-boci]

some Google results

"one click hoster" 6,040,000 results
"one click host" 133,000 results
"one click hosting" 880,000 results

In my simple English - Hungarian dictionary appears as "entertain"

So it seems at least now it is a verb too, and there is much more "hoster" as "host" at least as OCH

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by raztoki

gweilo just drop the hoster/host topic, you'd had your say and we are fully aware of your stance.

I made one mention, and the rest is responses to people who somehow feel insulted that I pointed out that it isn't actually an English word.

Originally Posted by raztoki

Any questions relating to alpha you can ask here. I'll make a known bug thread later today, of the bugs that I'm aware of. And we can use this thread for more general questions / conversations about this coming release.

I did make several reports of bugs.
But the responses were all about defending "hoster".

Originally Posted by bici-boci

some Google results...

Yeah, and notice how many are German language pages, &/or wriitten by German writers.


And this is my last post on the infamous word.

[Gweilo]

Reposting a bug report I made elsewhere:

Every RS link is reported by linkchecker as "file not found" in JD.
But I can download them fine via browser.

EVERY LINK So doesn't matter what example I give, but here's one:
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**

JDownloader -beta- Build 16116
Java Vendor: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Java Version: 1.6.0_31

No proxy.

JD doesn't seem to write anything in the log when it checks,
so this is probably a waste of time, but

log http://jdownloader.org/pastebin/77552

After that I gave up and reinstalled the stable version. That downloaded the RS links as normal.

Originally Posted by Gweilo

JDownloader -beta- Build 16116
Java Vendor: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Java Version: 1.6.0_31

That should be

JDownloader -beta- Build 16116
Java Vendor: Oracle Corporation
Java Version: 1.7.0_03

MfG David

PS: The Link shows online.

[editestowy]

The link works in alpha.
Worked in 16178, works in 16162 16183 - compiled today.
http://board.jdownloader.org/showpos...5&postcount=32

Also log displays information about checking the file:

Spoiler:

------------------------ Thread: 57 -----------------------
57 21.03.12 20:23:27 - FINEST [jd.http.Browser(openRequestConnection)] ->
-->Host:api.rapidshare.com
-->HostIP:195.122.131.23
----------------Request-------------------------
GET /cgi-bin/rsapi.cgi?sub=checkfiles&files=2568515502&filenames=Pretty.Little.Liars.S02E25.UnmAsked.480p.WEB-DL.x264-mSD.mkv&incmd5=1 HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 6.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 2.0.40607; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.5.30729)
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Language: de-DE,de;q=0.8,en-US;q=0.6,en;q=0.4
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.3
Cache-Control: no-cache
Pragma: no-cache
Connection: close
Host: api.rapidshare.com
----------------Response------------------------
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
p3p: CP="ALL DSP COR CURa ADMa DEVa TAIa PSAa PSDa IVAa IVDa CONa TELa OUR STP UNI NAV STA PRE"
date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:23:30 GMT
connection: close
accept-ranges: bytes
cache-control: no-cache
content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
content-length: 125
------------------------------------------------

- it calls RS linkchecker via API.

Are you using the same Javas for Stable and alpha?

-- EDIT
Today's version should be: 16183 - copied wrong version.info to my config folder after compilation.

[raztoki]

@davidh2k

its best to use java 1.6.0_latest for stable (last09) / beta (nightly).

and

java 1.7.0_latest for alpha


@Gweilo

rapidshare works fine for me in all three versions of jd. If you come back from a restart in alpha the the availablity status seems to clear for linkgrabber, for all links.

[Gweilo]

Originally Posted by raztoki

rapidshare works fine for me in all three versions of jd. If you come back from a restart in alpha the the availablity status seems to clear for linkgrabber, for all links.

I restarted several times. RS links were always "unavailable".

Anyway, I gave up trying to make the Alpha work so I won't make any more reports on that, doesn't seem productive to make reports and have them dismissed anyway.

It was traumatic when JD made its last major version shift, looks like this will be a repeat.

so that i get it right: 16183 is the alpha release, yes? I've been waiting for this, but RS over proxy still doesn't work :(

[raztoki]

no build number doesn't make it 'alpha'. alpha you have to run from programming IDE or compile yourself, its available from our svn. It's current branch name is -alpha-

if your interested, http://jdownloader.org/knowledge/wik...nt/get-started

We will be releasing a public alpha installer very soon. The benefit of waiting is you get fully working version of JD. This means features like dlc and couple other close source components are included, where its not possible to compile this yourself as those components are not on public on our svn.

Originally Posted by raztoki

We will be releasing a public alpha installer very soon. The benefit of waiting is you get fully working version of JD. This means features like dlc and couple other close source components are included, where its not possible to compile this yourself as those components are not on public on our svn.

okay, thank you very much.