[Solved] reCaptcha [International]

Originally Posted by drbits

Spammers using random user IDs, random passwords, random proxies (for example Tor), and reCaptcha breakers can get away with posting anything.

You can eliminate TOR and the majority of open proxies by using a DNSBL.

Originally Posted by drbits

The idea of a Junior Member quarantine has been rejected by Jiaz. We even supply a BugMeNot account to allow people to anonymously ask questions.

I think the quarantine rule for a few posts is sufficient to block almost all professional spammers who use automation. It will also decrease the moderator's work, because spammers with reCaptcha cracking tools (all professionals have them by now) will always pass.

@Jiaz

What's your reasoning behind this decision?

[pspzockerscene]

@remi
ATM. we really don't have much spam here.
Every XX weeks i delete some spam message but that's nothing compared to what we had here before scr4ve made that nice spam blocker.

GreeZ pspzockerscene

There's this great project - captcha exchange server (**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**). When you have time, you login and transcribe captchas for other users and gain points. For those points you than can let other users to transcribe your captchas when you're AFK. It doesn't really matter what they come up with, as long as humans can read it, this will work. Would you consider implementing this (or similar service of your own) in JDownloader to beat reCaptcha?

[drbits]

This and similar projects are being considered for future versions. This is already in the bugtracker as a request for a call to an external program, so it is not specific to any service or Captcha technology.

AntiCaptcha updates are only available with major releases of JD, not with plugin updates. Automatic-Anti-reCaptcha might have to wait until a release after this release.

Remember, even with this kind of technology, Google can easily create new Captcha challenges very quickly. They have their original "Naturally hard to read words", their random sequences, and their nonsense sequences. Right now, the random sequences are created in advance, but they could be created randomly for each request. They have several ways that they obfuscate the image "words" and several methods for future use. Finally, they could increase the number of words.

as i explained X times, it is stupid to fight recpatcha.. the kind of service purposed by blackfx is better than hack recaptcha...

a solution to this should be possible. jdown team wants to solve this really solves my opinion ......

Do you really want to solve it, that they need to ask this .....

jdown made them one of the computer world's most exclusive programs.

So this code solve radiation.


translate google translation did ..... thank all the team the most sincere salutations.

[drbits]

The last I heard, the JD team will not attempt to solve reCaptcha. It is likely that JD will eventually provide a way to use a Captcha response service (which would include reCaptcha).

**External links are only visible to Support Staff**India's CAPTCHA-Solving Economy

Rather interesting article. What do you guys think? Should JD make use of the services?

:confused:

[Statter]

I Can't see the links of course but one also has t be very careful of some of these such things as if it is what I am assuming your talking about, many of them are scams and others are very questionable about the actual speed of getting proper results in a timely manor. then there is also the issue of such as:

Inside India's CAPTCHA solving economy article aims to expose legitimate data entry workers, whose business models and techniques are in fact used by Russian cybercriminals not only for personal phishing, spamming and malware spreading purposes, but also, to resell the bogus accounts and earn a premium in the process :

Reference **External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**

Yeah, I see the whole issue of security and integrity behind it. The post was more of a discussion point for people's opinions rather than actual consideration of "integrating their services".

But hey, suppose everyone should just buy premium accounts and avoid CAPTCHA in the first place.

If all major host are using reCaptcha.. this is the end for them...

Spoiler:

They think:
"Because reCaptcha cannot be hacked, everyone will buy premium"

WRONG!!!

People will stop using JD and other managers and use P2P or other free hosts.
Really having JD popups every minute with reCaptcha is insane..

Soon everyone will stop using JD and if uploaders receive or received money uploading to these host they will stop, because people will not follow your game.

Filefactory, Hotfile.. and many others.. I hope you die soon!!! we will be back to P2P!

Moderator Edit: Please post editorials and other opinions in the General Discussion forum. I have also taken the liberty to correct some of your spelling. The original was hard to understand (drbits)

Hi, first compliments on the superb program!!!

My sugestion is simple (or not):

I belive that the add of a feature that would allow jdownloader, to sent back the "word/words" sent in response of a captcha pop-up, that sussefully allowed a download to continue, would allow the quicker update of captchas.

Secnario 1:

Jdownloader can "read" captcha
jd "calls" server for update captcha
captcha exist's - yes
jd reads captcha
captcha exist's - no
prompt user to fill
captcha "read" sucess - yes
upload new captha for future updates
captcha "read" sucess - no
wait for new captcha

it's only an idea and depends on server side to colect captchas and user good will...

best regards

[drbits]

@ alphaxs,

I cannot figure out what you are suggesting in Scenario 1. If this is about using a service provider to automatically solve reCaptchas, please see the earlier messages about the Feature Request to make this possible.

I think that part of this message is missing. I see Scenario 1, but not the other scenaria.

@drbits
I believe that alphaxs suggests to create a captrcha database that would store solved captchas. Google stated that the unknown word is prompted several times however i think that the control word changes every time, so storing whole captchas would get us nowhere and automatically parsing the letters and creating a database for the font that is currently being used for reCaptcha's control words would be extremely difficult if not impossible. There's no way create automated solution for reCaptcha which would work for more than few days since they can adapt it very quickly, so it's pointless to try.
Just consider creating the service I've suggested few posts earlier (where the captchas are transcribed by real people) or try developing API for Amazon's Mechanical Turk (or similar service) and ask users to pay let's say $0.01 for each captcha (though considering that these people don't wanna buy premium accounts, I suppose they'd prefer the solution where they can make points by transcribing captchas for other users themselves and than pay with those points). Both these solutions are permanent since the captchas are transcribed by humans.

[drbits]

Feature request 2022

The proposed solution is a way to call an external program with the name of the challenging website, the file name containing the Captcha challenge (a JPG file), and an arbitrary parameter to supply the information for the service. The results would be returned via stdout of the program and the returned value from the program would be 0. If the program fails to find a solution for the captcha it would send an end of line (Ctrl+J) to stdout and exit with an error code (2 is cannot solve it, 4 is network error, 5 is server rejected request, 1 is general error). Error 2 will trigger a retry.

If this addon is active, JD will call the external program whenever it would normally display a Captcha dialog.

The Addon is easy (just add a check to the JAC part of JDownloader for the active addon, and program the routine in the addon to call the program with the correct parameters, wait for the response and return the value. The part that is harder is adding the settings.

The external program should be very easy. However, to support multiple services, the program would have to know the APIs for each service. It will probably need a file containing the regex for the arbitrary string (for the service name) and some information about the API. One service per line.

The addon would be distributed with JD. However, the support program and the data file would be a download from a file server (it will not be considered a JD project). The program and data file would be unzipped into the JDownloader directory.

Could we make the external program a Java program (so it is platform independent)?

[buggsy]

Hey community,
The other night I was mad at uploaded.to for a while and I was wondering how you could get over that problem with recaptcha on uploaded.to. I know, there might be no way to get that captcha with a computer. BUT I think there is a way to still be able to download at uploaded.to. Since JD doesn't work on that page anymore I just opened up that link and I saw that the captcha is on the very first page.
What I want to suggest now: Why doesn't that uploaded.to plugin (after you added some links) ask the user for every single link right away. Now it's like having all the different links open in your browser with the captcha filled in, you just didn't press "download" yet. Now the first download starts and after that, JD reconnects and just presses "download" on the second link.
I mean, it's not the nicest solution but it's still better than opening every single link by hand every few minutes. The user adds 30 links, JD asks for all the captchas (that might take the user a couple minutes), and JD downloads them all after the captcha is saved in background.

Greetz

[pspzockerscene]

1.About captcha recognitions
2.NO, it is not possible to ask the users for all captchas first because the captchas only work per session, also you get a XX minutes limit after downloading a file from uploaded.to which would also "destroy" this idea;)

GreeZ pspzockerscene

[buggsy]

ok... Well I thought that was a good idea. But is there any way like that how you could get that uploaded.to at least going, again?

[pspzockerscene]

It is a good idea but it doesn't work (for uploaded.to).

Originally Posted by buggsy

But is there any way like that how you could get that uploaded.to at least going, again?

The uploaded.to plugin works perfectly so why do you ask ??
Do you get any errors when trying to download ?

GreeZ pspzockerscene

[buggsy]

Naja, jetzt nicht mehr. Hatte immer einen Fehler, dass das Plugin nicht funktioniert. Aber jetzt scheint es wieder zu funktionieren... Jetzt weiß ich auch nicht.

Edit: jetzt noch mal was anderes: Ich hab nur so zum Spaß beide Wörter im Captcha mal falsch eingegeben. Ich werde trotzdem weiter zum download verwiesen. Das ist dem egal, wenn ich beide falsch hab.

just to let you know one way, how spammer crack Captcha
it's a google tech talk about human computation. Google use it for OCR , spammer use it to crack Capcha. Nobody want to spend money

**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
(Capcha near 4min30s)

Maybe someone can developpe porn site to help Hotfile downloaders

[Statter]

Originally Posted by Azerty38

just to let you know one way, how spammer crack Captcha
it's a google tech talk about human computation. Google use it for OCR , spammer use it to crack Capcha. Nobody want to spend money

**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
(Capcha near 4min30s)

Interesting bout those games but makes me wonder how this is also being used or may be used to check and find Copyright materials such as images that may even be just used for reference on other sites as an example. Interesting concepts and implementation's though.

Originally Posted by Azerty38

Maybe someone can developpe porn site to help Hotfile downloaders

:w00t:

maybe Hotfile use their captcha, too create mail account

@drbits
Why would the program need to know the file host anyway? JD starts the download, gets captahca, sends the captcha to the program which will either transcribes it or request JD to refresh it, then JD submits the transcription to the filehost and starts download. I don't see where the program would need to communicate with the filehost itself.

Hello!

I would like to suggest to make a good improvement in the captcha resolution. Wouldnt it be posible to make a database where a user enters a captcha and that captcha (after a good download) is sent to a central database?

That would definetly solve and self feedback the last captcha problems with servers like fileserve.

I expect u read and consider my idea,

greetings

txomon

Originally Posted by pspzockerscene

2.The reCaptchas are quite dynamic. Unlike other Captchas which work with a static database of letters reCaptcha uses texts of books which the Google OCR engine couldn't recognize. If Google could not recognize the words, it is unlikely that we can. They have different letters for (nearly) every captcha so you can't just make a database to recognize them.

You have your answer.

[drbits]

@ txomon,

There is extensive discussion of this idea in this thread. There are already commercial and free databases for this purpose. There is a Feature Request for an addon to allow an external program to access these services.

Making it an external program frees JD of dealing with changes in services or new services. It also solves some potential legal problems in some countries.

If and when this will be included in JD depends on the amount of developer time available. Since the JD team is short of developers, it might not get done.

@txomon

Here is my take on this issue if you don't want to read the 10 pages of this thread :-

Originally Posted by remi

jD's customers could also solve each other's captchas. In exchange for the number of captchas they solve they get the same number of captcha resolutions from other members. That means that customers do not need to attend their downloads during the night or when they are away from their computers.

Note that this approach won't work for people with eye vision problems.

I like your idea remi; great job!

Little change for easier input:

Maybe it's possible to give the focus to the input field when the captcha appaers?
So i can start type the answer without mouse moving and clicks to input line everytime. This think will help us alot.

Greats

[drbits]

@ Rambazamba,

This is already a feature request in the bug tracker.

@ Those considering ideas about reCaptcha,
The JDownloader.org developers will not attempt to break or work around recaptcha. There are important reasons to distance JD from this.

Creating an external interface for Captchas that JD fails to solve is a general approach and has use outside of just reCaptcha. Ideas for how that should be done help the cause, complaining that JD has not fixed reCaptcha helps nobody.

To answer the question about why the command line for the external program should include the host, different hosts use different Captchas. Again, the idea is to provide an interface to a tool which will (magically) solve all of the Captchas that JD cannot, not just reCaptcha. I want to go to bed and wake up without having missed a Captcha.

In fact, there are other sites that have Captchas that JD does not attempt to solve. They need external services as well.

reCaptcha is such a problem, because some of the top-10 sites use it.

Then I still don't understand why the Captcha and reCaptcha threads have been separated. They need exactly the same treatment.

not really. recaptcha only uses moderate distortions since they have an interest in users actually recognizing them:

- usually all black+white
- high contrast (no anti-alias)
- y-sine displacement
- dithering (sometimes grayscale, but not often)
- flip upside-down or sideways (not sure, if these are the actual scans or the control words)

other captchas use all kinds of colourful lines, shapes, fonts and distortions.
as an example, the ones from freenet message system are so distorted you can only recognize about half of them.

00h

Yes you're right. reCaptchas are different. I found three other differences :-

1) They use two strings instead of one.

2) They are a source of daily laughter for me. How long will the Gogol slaves be able to invent new ways of annoying us with totally unreadable strings? How long will they be able to let web admins believe they can stop spam? Spam will only be stopped by using semantic techniques, i.e. by understanding the meaning of messages, not with ridiculous annoyances like this. Professional spammers aren't blocked and the others are negligible.

3) They were invented by Carnegie Mellon University in the US and are now used by Golgol.

Please, give me one type of captchas (with examples) and I'll give you a list of differences between them and the other types I've seen.

[buggsy]

Hello JD-Team,

no idea if the title is clear: currently, the captcha-images are saved locally, with their hoster and date as filename, for example (linux):
/opt/JDownloader/captchas/hotfile.com_20.10.2010_21.39.42.740.jpg

now i read in some thread that it may help the devs (to create new anticaptcha-plugins) to send them a whole lot of captchas with the "response" as their filename. it would be easier if JD would do that automatically, when i typed the response manually? it would be a lot easier than solving several thousand captchas again..
i, personally, would have no problem to (instantly? periodically?) let JD send all said captchas to you automatically. just another thought.

i think (and hope!) the future will be community-based captcha-solving, but it will take some more time for this it seems. and even then the automatic-captcha-solving is valuable!

this isnt exactly a "wish", just an idea i got which might or might not help you developers.

thank you for the b-m-n-account, much appreciated!

manuel

I thought someone wrote that all those captchas were deleted from your disk after you exit jD. Iv' checked my disk and there are many, from several dates. I've always used the Exit function.

How come? What's the purpose of keeping them?

[drbits]

Hallo zusammen,

Jdownloader ist absolut super ... vielen Dank erst mal für das Proggy.

Remote Captcha TM V0.1 ...8)

Was mir seit geraumer Zeit im Kopf rumschwirrt - meistens hat man den JDwonloader laufen - einige Files drin - aber man sitzt nicht vor dem Rechner.

Die Downloads laufen ins leere aufgrund fehlender Captcha-Eingabe.

Zu anderen Zeiten sitzt man davor - kann 2-3 Captchas eingeben ... und wartet dann bis zum nächsten Reconnect.

Meine Idee/Vorschlag :

Captchas werden von "PCs ohne User" zu Jdownloader remote übertragen. Dort erfolgt vom Benutzer die Eingabe für einen ganz anderen PC --- bei Erfolg bekommt man +1 Captcha am z.B. Server.

Sollte mein Jdownloader nicht besetzt sein hol ich mir von meinem "Eingabekonto" freie Eingaben anderer Benutzer und brauch so nicht mehr vor meinem PC verbringen.

So kann der Anwender innerhalb kürzester Zeit 100 Captchas für andere eingeben - im Gegenzug bekommt er 100 Captchas von anderen wenn er nicht am Rechner sitzt.

Quasi Remote Punkte sammeln für Eingaben - abfeiern wenn ich meinen JDownloader nicht besetzt hab.

Ein Punkt wird erst erreicht wenn der Remote Jdownloader bestätigt das die Eingabe korrekt war um Spam zu verhindern ... der Punkt wird hier im Forum in die Datenbank unter meinen Nick geschrieben (bringt Leute hier ins Forum und Ihr könnt Adsense schalten ..8) )

Ich hoffe ihr habt die Idee verstanden - schwer zu tippen ...8)

Ich wünsch euch einen schönen Abend - Tippt/schreibt doch mal was zu dem Vorschlag ...

Gruß

fff

P.S. : Wenn Kohle verdient sein muss kann man sich ja überlegen, ob man "Eingaben kaufen" kann ... 8)

[pspzockerscene]

@fff
1.Die Lösung ist nicht neu und es gibt noch so ein System, was sich "C.E.S." nennt, kommt von den Russen.
2.Momentan können wir sowas net machen.
3.Captchas kaufen geht bereits, es gibt Dienste, wo man das machen kann.
4.In internationalen reCaptcha Thread (SUFU) wurden schon viele Lösungen für sowas vorgelegt.

GreeZ pspzockerscene