If you can prove that jD can install it without your permission you've a point, but you would be the first person here.

I know I'm only a first time poster here but I've been using JDownloader for quite some time now and I've enjoyed it a lot.

I re-installed JDownloader yesterday and afterwards I noticed both my browsers (IE and FF) had a different start page, had a toolbar added and I got all kinds of popups.

Now I'm very sure I was never asked during installation to install anything other then JDownloader. I've installed tons of software on my PC and I would know if the software asks we to install something shady.

So I frankly don't care what some people may call it, to me it's malware as it installs and changes things on my pc without my permission. So unless it's removed I'm really sorry to say I'm going to find another free download manager.

[raztoki]

You have installed facemoods by clicking NEXT on the installer without reading the prompts. Not sure why people take to this negatively you are given the option to opt out. Clearly people are still not reading the installer terms/text as they are just clicking next.

[pspzockerscene]

I must say that even if i found the "skip" button i can understand the critics of our users and i hope it'll be removed or swapped with something else in the future...

GreeZ psp

[raztoki]

Exactly, It's easy enough to click no/decline. To me anyone that installs addons like this (very common, winamp been doing it for years), it's there own fault for not reading/following install guide correctly.

BTW, I downloaded the latest installer just to make that screen shot!

It's convenient to blame end users for unwittingly installing bundled rubbish. The adware in JD is constructed in such a way that it's easy to install by mistake. Those check boxes and opt-out options are not clear enough, and obviously designed to confuse users. I am experienced and almost made the wrong choice. Bad bad bad.

What you write is true (especially the fine print in quasi white font on a white background) but this principle is valid at a much larger scale.

If propaganda (or ad-ware or advertising) wouldn't work we would never had wars and other planetary problems because there wouldn't be corrupt power elites. Propaganda (nowadays called public relations) is manufactured by the power elites and obediently swallowed by the hard working, consenting slaves of this planet.

I never read fine print. Not only because of my bad eyes but also for the reason that even if I would be able to read it I would spend the rest of my life trying to understand it. This is exactly why these power elites have so much power. They've all the rights and no obligations nor responsibilities. It's written in laws and regulations. Why would they care as long as the population doesn't understand what they say or write?

[raztoki]

Sorry the radio buttons, and the descriptions associated with facemoods are clear and easy to understand, if you read the installation prompts. If you click next automatically you will miss the opt out, and install facemoods. Always read installer regardless if you've installed 100 times before. Terms and conditions change, so does the contents within a installer. Once again this is user error.

That's exactly the way power elites reason and how to acquire more power, just on a smaller scale. The idiot lusers (the people) are to blame because they are outsmarted by the much smarter malware builders (power elite).

[raztoki]

I just hate it when people blame others when its clearly there own wrong doing. The installer has opt out options, if you look at the screen shot (#44) its easy to pick up. Saying you're tricked or outsmarted is fallacy, once again my advise is too read the install prompts and stop blaming others for your own mistake.

I liken it too smokers (cigarettes) everyone knows they are dangerous to your health and highly addictive, yet people are still taking up the dirty habit.

That's exactly what I also hear from power elites' public relations. By mixing things up they try to confuse the debate. Smoking or other addictions have nothing to do with being able to read or understand all the fine print.

BTW, smokers usually start smoking at a young age when they aren't aware of the dangers (addiction, cancer, and other health risks) because their parents don't even know they're smoking and can't inform them in time. That's also the reason why there are so many child pregnancies in some fundamentalist/prude countries. Those parents still think that sex isn't something for children.

Originally Posted by pspzockerscene

Hey people.
MANY other software developers (which develop PAID software) also have toolbars and addons in their installers.
When paying attention while installing software you can deselect those toolbars and if you don't, well honestly you're stupid.
Just take ICQ as an example...most people just click "next" all the time and then they install things they don't want.

I am sorry, but is this really your excuse for having unwanted software in the installer? Because many others do it too? These softwares are just as bad. Any software that bundles itself with unwanted software like ask.com etc. is to be avoided. It's just not worth it.

You are beating around the bush with this post, obviously you know that these things are horrible and facemoods in particular is even one of the worst. It's completely and utterly useless software. JDownloader included it for the money, I get that. But I would rather pay for an excellent software like JDownloader, than it having to resort to such low, very, very low measures.

Originally Posted by pspzockerscene

If, in real life, you always "press" accept you'll lose your money:rolleyes:

What you are actually saying here is, that in "real life", cons, phishing and fraud is ok, because it exploits the "stupidity" of an individual.

Originally Posted by coalado

@remi:
No sorry. Anyway, this would not help anybody. Bundleing JDownloader is very important to keep JD free. If every user would pay a few cents, we could remove bundles completely.

I would gladly pay a few euros, not just cents.
But in its current state, with unwanted software bundled to the installation, I am reluctant to flattr or Donate :(.

Originally Posted by raztoki

You have installed facemoods by clicking NEXT on the installer without reading the prompts. Not sure why people take to this negatively you are given the option to opt out. Clearly people are still not reading the installer terms/text as they are just clicking next.

The issue is, that it is deliberately activated by default during the installation, knowing that users simply will click next. As already said, exploiting the stupidity of the users does not morally justify this.

[raztoki]

@remi
Not sure what it has to do with mixing it up, or confusing debate/situation, nor the power elite. The installer has opt out features, is clear as day! That is, if you bother to read the installer prompts.

I know with smoking here it's been drummed into kids at primary school age and younger not to smoke, has been since the 80's (maybe earlier). The only places that wouldn't have similar policies in this modern world/era would be countries without those type of education systems or formal structures. Most governments while taxing smoking heavily, also realise that its costing their health systems greatly (directly and indirectly). But for economic reasons in the now, they do not out right ban the sale/act of smoking of cigarettes as its a major cash cow. That and the associated problems of the underground then just taking over. That said even educated people still take up smoking regardless. People will do was they wish/want.

And to your teen/child sex comments yes it happens, in years past families used to hide it, I'd say now its more accepted/tolerated. Having a look at American TV Series, Multiple shows highlighting/following young parents around, which in turn has made them into 'reality tv stars'. These sort of problems wont go anywhere its human/animal nature to multiply the species.

Anyway guess this isn't on topic ; end of convo.

[raztoki]

Originally Posted by Spooky

The issue is, that it is deliberately activated by default during the installation, knowing that users simply will click next. As already said, exploiting the stupidity of the users does not morally justify this.

Those are common industry practices. It's nearly always opt out and not opt in. Once again if you read the installer prompts you wouldn't have a problem.

In the end it results in a few annoyed/pissed *** users who generally get in angry but not necessarily at themselves, but look to shift the blame. It's common sense is to take responsibility for your own actions.

It's catch 22 situation, If more people donated surely the team wouldn't need to bother with these type of revenue streams. Even if every user donated 1 dollar ~15million users = 15million$ which then could be spent on staff, server hosts fees, Research and Development.

Originally Posted by raztoki

@remi
Not sure what it has to do with mixing it up, or confusing debate/situation, nor the power elite. The installer has opt out features, is clear as day! That is, if you bother to read the installer prompts.

The installer ist there, because the team needs the money. And the installer is deliberately active by default, in the hopes of tricking users into installing it, when they just click next. Otherwise users would never, ever install a software like facemoods on purpose on their system, bundled or standalone. facemoods in particular is not just "potentially" unwanted software, as these things are mostly called, but it's completely useless and unwanted software.

Originally Posted by raztoki

Those are common industry practices.

So you are really saying, that just because it's common, it's ok? If the JDownloader team thinks the same way, if they really think it's ok to do this, then they are really taking a low road here.

I really hope their moral point of view on the world is not like that. I think JDownloader is an excellent software, much much better than its non-Java counterparts at least and it just saddens me, that they have to resort to such measures.

Originally Posted by coalado

It will be removed completely, and replaced by something better. Until this "something" is ready for release, we decided to keep facemoods.

To avoid "Installs by accident", we re-layouted the installed screen, and implemented the "custom" options.

However, it seems that it is not possible to avoid this at all.
It is perhaps a good idea to publish some Step-by-step instructions to revert the facemoods installation.

The only thing that would be "better" is, if no software is bundled by default with the installer. I think it would be much, much better if you guys just included a message to ask for help with donations or to use the flattr button on the website for instance.


Regarding the catch 22: yeah, it sucks :(.

[raztoki]

Disclaimer:
I'm not 'working for/assoicated with' appwork, I'm only volunteer of jdownloader. There for am not speaking on behalf of appwork

I've been around computers and software for ~25 years. I'm also speaking from experience installing/using software in the past. My observations are, it's common practice within these type of revenue streams to default install unless the user opts out. Some might not have any default opt (in/out) settings, making the user choose before continuing, but this isn't the norm. Please remember that default positions exist within installers regardless eg. 'default install path, default create program menu, default file associations', this is no different.

No one likes making a mistake installing unwanted/necessarily software, but it is your mistake if you click next without reading the installer instructions. It's possibly even against the law as you've done the same thing for the licence agreement.

If this was truly a trick it would be installed without any 'opt in/out' options. Once again this is not to confuse or to trick you. If you read the prompts you shouldn't have problems.

I've personally come close to installing 3rd party addons in the past (winamp/other software - usually ask.com bar) but usually I review (go back) settings before clicking install, this has saved me numerous times when multitasking and not paying enough attention.

Personally I don't like these type of revenue streams either, but I can understand why they are needed.

Originally Posted by raztoki

I've been around computers and software for ~25 years. I'm also speaking from experience installing/using software in the past. My observations are, it's common practice within these type of revenue streams to default install unless the user opts out. Some might not have any default opt (in/out) settings, making the user choose before continuing, but this isn't the norm. Please remember that default positions exist within installers regardless eg. 'default install path, default create program menu, default file associations', this is no different.

No, this is very different. Software might come with more than just one application bundled. But in this case, it is completely unwanted and unnecessary software that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the software you actually want to install. Its sole purpose is to create money and as such it is only available as an opt-out.

Originally Posted by raztoki

No one likes making a mistake installing unwanted/necessarily software, but it is your mistake if you click next without reading the installer instructions. It's possibly even against the law as you've done the same thing for the licence agreement.

No one is debating, that it is your "mistake". But it is your mistake as well, if you are a victim of phishing, it is your mistake as well if you give your money to a con man, it is your mistake as well if you unknowingly agree to an agreement change, that a service provider deliberately hid on a piece of paper he sent you that looked like an advertisement for other products, knowing that you would not read it (a practice that some mobile providers here in Austria are starting to use).

Just because it is always the individual's mistake does not justify the actions of all these other individuals, that tricked you. Otherwise you are saying that it is ok to exploit other people's "stupidity".

Originally Posted by raztoki

If this was truly a trick it would be installed without any 'opt in/out' options.

It would be worse if it was installed without having the option to disable it during the install, that is for sure. The reputation of JD would probably plummet in such a case, or at least more than it does now (if it does now at all that is).

Originally Posted by raztoki

Once again this is not to confuse or to trick you. If you read the prompts you shouldn't have problems.

The reason it is in there, is because each installation of facemoods creates supports the JD team, at least according to the text during the installation. Don't you agree that facemoods itself is completely pointless and nobody would ever willingly install such a software? If so, why do you think the developers made it only an opt-out option anyway, instead of opt-in?

Originally Posted by raztoki

I've personally come close to installing 3rd party addons in the past (winamp/other software - usually ask.com bar) but usually I review (go back) settings before clicking install, this has saved me numerous times when multitasking and not paying enough attention..

I do that as well. But in all cases, or, well, most cases now, I usually choose to not use the software, if I see that they bundle unwanted software like ask.com etc. with them.


It may be a necessary evil, but I sure hope the JD team will reconsider this and may be promote donations more instead.

Interesting comments. The debate is finally being raised to a higher level. Note that this is a level that power elites don't like and tend to censor. Usually the smarter people who don't agree with the power elites are involved in some sort of freaky car accident, they're paid a lot of money or their warnings are lost in a huge propaganda stream funded by huge, monopolistic profits or tax payers money.

Also note that organisations don't have moral or ethical values even if their PR says they have. Only persons can have moral values and they seem to be different from one person to another. If these values wouldn't be different you wouldn't have people willing to work for organisations, companies or governments. The bigger they are the more corrupt they are.

So far the contextual background. Back to the particular issue at hand. I call unwanted or completely and utterly useless software malware because it consumes resources and gives nothing in return.

If funding a project is only possible by adding malware to software and hoping there are enough stupid lusers or people with bad eyes to install the malware then I think a project should be stopped. This moral value I have is based on "Don't do to other people what you don't want to happen to yourself".

@raztoki

Concerning your educational system; children start smoking because the pressure by the Tobacco Mafia is higher than the pressure of the educational system and the parents combined. Note that children like to do things that are dangerous and forbidden. This behaviour is exploited by the Tobacco Mafia.

Originally Posted by raztoki

Disclaimer:
I'm not 'working for/assoicated with' appwork, I'm only volunteer of jdownloader. There for am not speaking on behalf of appwork
...
Personally I don't like these type of revenue streams either, but I can understand why they are needed.

Your disclaimer is worth nothing because under your name I see JD-Supporter which contradicts what you're saying. You belong to jD's organisation. Also using the word "Personally" at the end of your post might let people think you aren't speaking freely most of the time.

The installer instructions are written in barely readable font and some people haven't the eyes you have. Note that I don't know anybody who reads licence agreements, because I don't know any lawyers.

I thought all people working for this project are volunteers, who don't want to be paid. I can understand that servers and bandwidth cost money, but there are places where open software can be hosted for free. Why isn't this road taken?

[raztoki]

@Spooky
Terms of agreement also exist within facemoods options (doubt anyone reads it). People that read the prompt, see that its for animations (Smileys/winks/emotions) for 'facebook' would just install without second thought. I'm sure you would still have unhappy users regardless of additional steps informing users prior to installation.

Default options exist as I've explained, it's still up to the user to decide either way and make an informed decision to install or not. In regards to your statement of relevance, no doubt that revenue streams have little to no relevance to the program been installed. It's whole purpose is to return revenue to the authors or publishers, hence its default setting. I'm not arguing in the contrary. Default settings exist, you're meant too adjust for your needs/wants.

Really depends if you're been exploited legally or illegally, as there's a clear definition within law and business practice. This shouldn't be confused or compared with illegal practice as this isn't. For example, a user not keeping there computer updated (there fault) and finds his computer exploited due to vulnerabilities. The owner still hasn't given consent to be hacked/accessed remotely/etc. In reference to JD + facemoods, When the user accepts the terms and agrees to install facemoods they have given there consent, big difference.

Companies love fine print, phone/internet service providers here do it all the time also. Many years ago (10~) our major telco went from having unlimited data allowances to 3gb/month regardless of your internet speed (cable/adsl) == 300MB/day. They got away with it as it was written in the terms they could change at any point.

As you've already indicated with your coalodo quote, that the facemoods addition within the installer will be reviewed at the next version. Guess we will see what happens then.

Btw. another thing to consider: JD users, who have used and loved this software for a while now, will probably simply trust in JD, that its installer does not do anything out of order, since they haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary in the past as well.

It was similar to that in my case as well. I did not expect the JD installer to have Malware in it all of a sudden. Luckily I noticed, when I chose "Custom install" as I always do with any software (partially to detect Malware in the installation process as well), thinking it is the custom install option for JD itself, until I saw the "facemoods" text under there.

Originally Posted by raztoki

@Spooky
Terms of agreement also exist within facemoods options (doubt anyone reads it). People that read the prompt, see that its for animations (Smileys/winks/emotions) for 'facebook' would just install without second thought. I'm sure you would still have unhappy users regardless of additional steps informing users prior to installation.

Default options exist as I've explained, it's still up to the user to decide either way and make an informed decision to install or not. In regards to your statement of relevance, no doubt that revenue streams have little to no relevance to the program been installed. It's whole purpose is to return revenue to the authors or publishers, hence its default setting. I'm not arguing in the contrary. Default settings exist, you're meant too adjust for your needs/wants.

Really depends if you're been exploited legally or illegally, as there's a clear definition within law and business practice. This shouldn't be confused or compared with illegal practice as this isn't. For example, a user not keeping there computer updated (there fault) and finds his computer exploited due to vulnerabilities. The owner still hasn't given consent to be hacked/accessed remotely/etc. In reference to JD + facemoods, When the user accepts the terms and agrees to install facemoods they have given there consent, big difference.

Companies love fine print, phone/internet service providers here do it all the time also. Many years ago (10~) our major telco went from having unlimited data allowances to 3gb/month regardless of your internet speed (cable/adsl) == 300MB/day. They got away with it as it was written in the terms they could change at any point.

Just because it is legally justifyable, which it obviously is, does not make it right or morally ok. These business practises are awful, you know that as well as I do. Such things should be fought and not accepted on the basis of "everyone is doing it and it's legal".

Originally Posted by raztoki

Default settings exist, you're meant too adjust for your needs/wants.

Sure, you are meant to choose between "screw me over" and "do not screw me over". Naturally, no one wants to be screwed over, yet the default option is "screw me over" (to put it a bit more bluntly).

[raztoki]

Originally Posted by remi

Your disclaimer is worth nothing because under your name I see JD-Supporter which contradicts what you're saying. You belong to jD's organisation. Also using the word "Personally" at the end of your post might let people think you aren't speaking freely most of the time.

No I haven't contradicted myself.

Once again you lack of understanding really showing, I'll try and explain (but only once).

The supporter tag is used as reference to other forum users, to indicate that I'm part of the jdownloader supporter team. This does not imply/indicate that I'm working for or associated with (owner) Appwork. Jdownloader supporter/developer doesn't necessarily have to be associated with Appwork.

Revenue earnt is going to Appwork and not jdownloader, as I understand it. Just like your donations on Paypal/Flattr.

The use of 'Personally' would imply that I'm only speaking on 'my own behalf/opinions of' and not necessarily that of jdownloader policy or of the support team. It's a indication of context.

Originally Posted by remi

The installer instructions are written in barely readable font and some people haven't the eyes you have. Note that I don't know anybody who reads licence agreements, because I don't know any lawyers.

better turn your computer off your breaking the law *shock horror*

Originally Posted by remi

I thought all people working for this project are volunteers, who don't want to be paid. I can understand that servers and bandwidth cost money, but there are places where open software can be hosted for free. Why isn't this road taken?

No, the Appwork guys you could say are getting paid to code/maintain jdownloader, they code this during business work hours day in day out. They have the controlling interest and are the copyright owners of jdownloader and associated projects.

The rest of us are volunteers and are not on the payroll or associated with (ownership of) Appwork, that I know of.

And to the last sentence ill let the Appwork guys answer this, as this is there domain.

Good comments, Spooky. JD's reputation has been tarnished like so many other once-reputable programs over the years. Bundling junkware with your software is a sure way to lose users. They can justify a thousand different ways and blame users an equal amount, but it all amounts to the same screw-over of loading installers with opt-in (by default) stuff no one would ever want under normal circumstances.

JDownloader is good software ON ITS OWN.

[raztoki]

@Spooky

Or the third radio tab option : skip installation = drama free

I was never arguing a moral standpoint, I've always said it's user error if they have installed by mistake. As this can be totally avoided if user follows prompts.

In the perfect world it would be nice not having to run revenue raising addons within installers (it's not part of jd). But business' have costs which need to be recovered either by these type of revenue streams or by charging customers for licences (As this is open source that's off the cards). Revenue needs to be found to cover costs, funding research and development, paying staff and other costs.


@avoidz

yes opt in are the default settings. As explained many times already.

Your comments are sometimes as fuzzy and incomprehensible as the fine print of licence agreements. You could have become a rich lawyer.

Originally Posted by raztoki

Really depends if you're been exploited legally or illegally, as there's a clear definition within law and business practice. This shouldn't be confused or compared with illegal practice as this isn't. For example, a user not keeping there computer updated (there fault) and finds his computer exploited due to vulnerabilities.

That's a nice point you make there. Indeed, legal exploitation probably is more common than exploitation that is forbidden by law. Most laws exploit the weak and increase the power of the rich elites. The distinction between legal and illegal exploitation makes no sense. Exploitation defined as "unjust benefit" in a political- economical context is always wrong, ethically speaking.

Note that you can't blame a person if a person decides not to update software as I'm doing now with jD because I know the updates contain serious bugs. Note that vulnerabilities can be introduced by updating a system.

Coa's intention to remove the malware was was written on 29.04.2011. Almost five months later nothing has changed.

If you're part of jD's official supporter team then you're by definition part of jD's organisation. I know that jD is being developed by AppWork UG. That simply means you're an unpaid (exploited?) worker of AppWork.

Some of AppWork's revenue is spend on jD because jD is an AppWork project/product.

I'm sure you aren't reading the fine print of licence agreements because it's incomprehensible and you would spend your whole life doing nothing else than trying to understand them all.

Originally Posted by raztoki

No, the Appwork guys you could say are getting paid to code/maintain jdownloader, they code this during business work hours day in day out. They have the controlling interest and are the copyright owners of jdownloader and associated projects.

The rest of us are volunteers and are not on the payroll or associated with (ownership of) Appwork, that I know of.

If some of jD's developers are working for money then that would create an unjust situation because most jD developers aren't paid. It would however explain the existing state of the jD project.

If on top of what I wrote before you no longer own your own code you contributed to the project, you've been ripped a second time. A nice example of "illegal exploitation" as you call it.

Originally Posted by raztoki

Revenue needs to be found to cover costs, funding research and development, paying staff and other costs.

Note that most open source software is developed by volunteers because it would otherwise create an unjustifiable distinction between the developers. Most people don't like the idea of being exploited. I know that Linux and some other projects/products are an exception but most open source projects have many more volunteers than paid developers.

@Spooky

I think jD has had malware in it at other times as well. At least one of them was detected by an anti-malware organisation and when a customer reported it it was removed by the programmers. If my memory is good it was the 'Kikin' adware.

[pspzockerscene]

Hi
I must admit i didn't read your post (only the last lines) but as far as i know the kikin threads were never removed.
Maybe they exist in the archive so you can't find it using the boardsearch!

GreeZ psp

Originally Posted by raztoki

@Spooky

Or the third radio tab option : skip installation = drama free

I was never arguing a moral standpoint, I've always said it's user error if they have installed by mistake. As this can be totally avoided if user follows prompts.

And I was never arguing, that it's a user "mistake", if he does not look closely. My issue is the moral implication of including malware, especially in what I think is a good piece of software.

Originally Posted by remi

@Spooky

I think jD has had malware in it at other times as well. At least one of them was detected by an anti-malware organisation and when a customer reported it it was removed by the programmers. If my memory is good it was the 'Kikin' adware.

Oh, I didn't know that.

[pspzockerscene]

@Spooky
Please read my posts before responding to remis as i posted a "statement"!

GreeZ psp

Originally Posted by pspzockerscene

@Spooky
Please read my posts before responding to remis as i posted a "statement"!

GreeZ psp

Well, I did read your post before responding to him. But you didn't convey anything, other than the threads still being there. Did you mean, that there wasn't actually any Malware/Adware and it was just a false positive?

// but since it's in the Wiki, I guess that is not the case: http://jdownloader.org/kikin
Is kikin also still included with JD? //² ah, the kikin desktop browser plugin was discontinued by kikin ( **External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**)

[raztoki]

@remi
It really depends on the project, lots of open source projects are actually backed by large commercial enterprise or educational institutions. Any significant progress made are from commerical interests as they have the labour and skill base. MySQL was sun controlled now oracle along with java, etc. Lot of the money made off open source projects, usually from hardware based sales associated with open source os/software (eg sunos+ mysql) :: or from support based contracts (hardware/sofware), or from even patients. Highly depending on licence agreements. But each project is different, there are many different licence agreements used within the open source sector.

No I'm not associated with appwork in any official manner, other than providing code to jdownloader. I'm only associated indirectly with appwork as they are jdownloader owners, so my code ends up in ownership of jdownloader / appwork (which you sign legal wavier to let this happen. That's how open source contributing tends to work, in some manner, its not as free and open as one might think, but highly dependant on the project.

. . ----(donate)----[end users]<----------
. . \/. . . . . . . . . . ./\ . . . \/ . . . . . . .\/
[appwork] <----> [jdownloader] <--> [supporters]
. . /\. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . .|
. . ----(donate)---------------------------

- = interactions , . = white space fixer


@Spooky
Well it wasn't a moral decision it was economic decision guess that's my point. When money is concerned, it usually takes preference over some peoples opinions on default settings inside installers, as long as you can opt out that's all that matters.

Yes I have made a small mistake by not clicking do not install facemoods. But please please make it by default that its not checked. or please find another program to be sponsor.
Not really mad at you but mad at facemood.
Hope you will consider it.

And to remove the program:
You need to uninstall on your computer, uninstall the addon in firefox, uninstall the toolbar, In right side of the searchbar and remove facemoodsearch again, enter about:config search for facemood and reset all the lines. find a link to install google as the fav. search when you search in the smartbar You can find it here **External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**

Then you should be finish completely.
Hope this will help people.

Originally Posted by raztoki

@Spooky
Well it wasn't a moral decision it was economic decision guess that's my point. When money is concerned, it usually takes preference over some peoples opinions on default settings inside installers, as long as you can opt out that's all that matters.

It's not about "some peoples opinions on default settings inside installers". It's about tricking people into installing something completely useless (and might I add also something that is annoying to remove) alongside the software you actually wanted to install, in order to get money. Which is, at the very least, a morally questionable business decision.

[raztoki]

@spooky
Guess we have differing opinions then, I see it fine as long as you can op out. If a user doesn't read the installer and installs what ever additional software then I'm of the opinion it's their own fault.

I agree with Spooky's opinion and probably with most jD customers.

What you're saying is exactly what all power elites are saying all the time. "You should have known the rules", "you should have known the law", while most people studying law know that laws are full of contradictions and are completely incomprehensible by 99% of the population, including some judges and lawyers. If everything would be comprehensible why would you need judges anyway?

Does that mean that 99% of the population is an idiot?

Do you know that most Americans belonging to the middle class are paying federal taxes even without rules/laws that force them to do that? I would rather call this sort of behaviour their own fault. If they would all stand up they could finally beat that powerful IRS monster, but they don't and silently collaborate with the regime. It costs them lots of money that disappears into the pockets of the corrupt elites.

BTW, thanks for the info in your previous posts. I now more clearly understand the causes of the problems of the jD project. What I don't understand is why AppWorks wants to own all the code. If it is for commercialising jD then this would mean the end of jD, because several other projects will take over jD's leading market position. Most people understand that only free, open source software will be really successful.

Originally Posted by raztoki

And if it was questionable package/software, it shouldn't be in the installer at all.

Which facemoods obviously is. So you agree with me then..?

[raztoki]

No I do not agree with you hence my statements above.

Not sure where you're quoting that from, as I've never said that.

@Spooky

EDIT : raztoki removed the following paragraph, because it would be "speculation/rant" :-

I read "And if it was questionable package/software, it shouldn't be in the installer at all." as well. It might have been his personal opinion but on this board raztoki now mostly speaks as a person belonging to the jD organisation. Most people show this type of schizophrenic behaviour when they're new in an organisation but after some time they start speaking the propaganda of the organisation. It's just a matter of survival and it shows their loyalty.

@raztoki

I admire your skills to make something simple as incomprehensible as can possibly be and that's why I don't understand :-

Originally Posted by raztoki

. . ----(donate)----[end users]<----------
. . \/. . . . . . . . . . ./\ . . . \/ . . . . . . .\/
[appwork] <----> [jdownloader] <--> [supporters]
. . /\. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . .|
. . ----(donate)---------------------------

- = interactions , . = white space fixer

Is this a superposition of a Chinese character and some English words?

Originally Posted by raztoki

No I do not agree with you hence my statements above.

Not sure where you're quoting that from, as I've never said that.

EDIT : raztoki removed the following text from my post because it would be 'unsubstantiated' :-

This was a reply to Spooky's post. Why did you remove Spooky's posts? They were just quoting what you wrote before.

REMOVED

Originally Posted by remi

This was a reply to Spooky's post. Why did you remove Spooky's posts? They were just quoting what you wrote before.

Yeah, why did the post get removed? That's a pretty odd behaviour from the forum moderators I have to say.

[Think3r]

Guys (all of you), I have to remind you that all of the last posts here are off-topic. Please do not discuss about your personal opinions, that's why we are able to pm someone.
Stop it and return to topic or I'll close the topic.
Greetz

[raztoki]

I never stated that, not sure where that text came from (Rouge forum vBulletin). I will edit/delete any post reflecting any miss quotes as its not what I posted, and give you guys warnings.

[Think3r]

raztoki will complain everything. Please believe him as his explanation might sound a little like an excuse.
Greetz


PS: I undeleted the post.
EDIT BY PSP:
And sure you were forced to install Facemoods...