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  #1  
Old 18.07.2010, 11:16
remi
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Default When will we see a new release?

When will be this next release that was promised in April? This year, 2011? Any ideas?

Note that although I believe jD is still the most popular download manager, other tools with which jD is competing are catching up like "rapid ponies".
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  #2  
Old 18.07.2010, 11:32
pauldmps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remi View Post
When will be this next release that was promised in April? This year, 2011? Any ideas?

Note that although I believe jD is still the most popular download manager, other tools with which jD is competing are catching up like "rapid ponies".
I also have the same query. I eagerly check the "Roadmap" everyday. But the % instead of increasing is decreasing. It was earlier 65% which reduced to 64% & now 63%.

Any answers Team-JD ?
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  #3  
Old 18.07.2010, 11:46
remi
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I think it would be better to adopt an agile development approach with small and clearly defined scope extensions. Adding too many features at once might become a management and more in particular a testing nightmare.

@pauldmps

If your observation is correct (which I do not doubt) then the project might be suffering from scope creep.
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  #4  
Old 18.08.2010, 20:09
pauldmps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remi View Post
I think it would be better to adopt an agile development approach with small and clearly defined scope extensions. Adding too many features at once might become a management and more in particular a testing nightmare.

@pauldmps

If your observation is correct (which I do not doubt) then the project might be suffering from scope creep.
My observation is indeed correct. Today I checked the Roadmap & guess what ?
It has reduced from 64% to 32%. It seems JD is developing in backward direction.
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  #5  
Old 18.08.2010, 20:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldmps View Post
My observation is indeed correct. Today I checked the Roadmap & guess what ?
It has reduced from 64% to 32%. It seems JD is developing in backward direction.
...and what have you contributed to the developement of JD?
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Last edited by vivalostioz; 18.08.2010 at 20:43.
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  #6  
Old 19.08.2010, 00:55
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Deliberate double post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivalostioz
and what have you contributed to the developement of JD?
Who do you think is responsible for the scope creep?

Actually, I have been contributing bug reports and feature requests for future versions. Somebody has been moving tasks from the future release category into the Next release category. This is a major part of your scope creep. We also have at least 3 killer bugs to fix.
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  #7  
Old 19.08.2010, 11:49
remi
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Is there a reason to include so many new features in the next release?

By keeping scope changes and periods between releases small you keep testing efforts small while keeping the interest of customers.

By adding several features at once you take the risk of severely increasing test time because of combinatorial interactions between these new features.

Many customers have tested products from the competition because they see no end to the testing of the 'next' release and have lost patience while waiting for their missing feature.

BTW, I don't mean you need to revert to the previous approach where untested features were added nearly every week. That approach was much worse and made the customers really angry.
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  #8  
Old 19.08.2010, 15:49
pauldmps
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I totally agree with Remi.

@vivalostioz
I have no intentions of criticizing developers of JD. I know they're doing a great job. I just wanted to say that its weird that the completion % is reducing with time.
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  #9  
Old 19.08.2010, 16:00
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its reducing because we moved more tickets to next release roadmap
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  #10  
Old 19.08.2010, 16:05
remi
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I recommend using :-

- Timeboxing ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeboxing") and an

- Agile software development approach ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development")
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  #11  
Old 20.08.2010, 05:42
pauldmps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
its reducing because we moved more tickets to next release roadmap
So will it take more time to complete ?

What is the criteria of sorting tickets into the "next stable" version or "far-far away" version ?

I can see that the most important feature that will solve most users' complaints - "Event manager rewrite" is still set to the "far-far away" version.
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  #12  
Old 20.08.2010, 10:13
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Complexity and Time to add/fix something. Event Manager is nothing you write over night. It's GUI,Controlling, Design.....thats not an easy task.
We cannot bring alot of new Features into the next Version, cause stability is more important than fancy new features!
If development is not fast enough for you, then you can join devteam
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  #13  
Old 21.08.2010, 05:31
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remi,

I thought you said that you were not a programmer. The project management issues are difficult in this case, because the programmers are volunteers. They volunteer for a task, but often cannot give long term commitments.

I am not on devteam and the decisions about the order of implementation belong to Jiaz and Coalado, but Event Manager is a general tool. I am sure we can find existing code for most of it, except the UI. The problem is that everything in the program has to be changed to issue events, some parts of the program have to be able to subscribe/unsubscribe to events, and the program has to be changed to recognize OS events.

With over 600 plugins (hosts, decrypters, folders, and anticaptcha), any task that involves every plugin is huge. I know Jiaz has done some work on standardising things and implementing as much as possible in parent classes, but generation/capture will still require some changes for each.

As I said, it is not my decision, but I would make a release that had an internal event manager and the changes to publish events from the download process, the UI, and the database.

Creating a Grid based UI to allow specification of events (from a dropdown list), source, action, object) and allows multiple actions per event can wait until the next release.

Many of the other changes are additions to the database and the grid display structure. Again, changing from a text based interface for a SQL database to a hierarchical database is a big job. Again, the features using a faster, more capacious database need to be released several releases.
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I think the next release is being held up by a serious, difficult bug (deadlocks) and cosmetic concerns (how will the menus be structured?).

Except for the deadlock problem, the other bugs can be dealt with later. Even some of the translations can be updated as part of a plugin update.
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The buzz words that remi used are not solutions, they are ways to sell books, programs, and so on. Choosing techniques, such as Petrie nets, Decision Tables, or resource sorting to represent the synchronization of the entire program or at least large parts of the program may be necessary for fixing the deadlocks and designing the hierarchy of events.
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  #14  
Old 21.08.2010, 11:22
remi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
remi,

I thought you said that you were not a programmer.
Please, tell me where you read that? You don't remember what I told you in one of our first PMs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
The project management issues are difficult in this case, because the programmers are volunteers. They volunteer for a task, but often cannot give long term commitments.
I cite from the wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management) :-

Quote:
Project management is the discipline of planning, organizing, and managing resources to bring about the successful completion of specific project goals and objectives.
Please, explain why the status of volunteer resource would have an effect on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbits View Post
The buzz words that remi used are not solutions, they are ways to sell books, programs, and so on.
I never sold nor bought any book, sold any program nor bought any program and so on, covering these subjects. These project management methodologies are as old as project management exists and are based on experience and common sense. They were used by architects in the middle ages and probably already in 6000 BC by the pyramid builders in Egypt. How would they otherwise have been able to build these complex buildings?

The truth is that young project managers like Jiaz & Co. can't have enough experience. They're learning from their errors and that's the best way to learn, but this means that it'll take time before they know how to do it.

Programmers aren't necessarily good project managers. Every discipline or role needs very specific skills. I consider mixing roles as a huge risk because it can lead to conflicts of interest and confuses accountability. In the case of smaller projects I always recommend using a (corporate) program office that coordinates them.
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  #15  
Old 21.08.2010, 12:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remi View Post
The truth is that young project managers like Jiaz & Co. can't have enough experience. They're learning from their errors and that's the best way to learn, but this means that it'll take time before they know how to do it.
100% ACK, we learn from our misstakes. And we already learned alot, but you cannot simply put all new things into a complex project like JD. many things needs to get rewritten, changed, optimized. That takes time and alot of planing. The day only has 24hours :(
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  #16  
Old 21.08.2010, 18:05
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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I sometimes don't understand why people even want a new version.
Okay i know that a new version will also fix bugs but which other reasons are there for you to want a new version ?
Some programms reach a status where the programmers say "okay the programm does everything it should do and it doesn't have any known bugs so we're done with that" and then releases no new updates.

I don't say that this is the best case but atm. JD works quite good so there isn't really a reason to wait for the next update every day

GreeZ pspzockerscene
EDIT

Of course we have to release plugin updates because plugins can always die^^
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That's true James
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  #17  
Old 21.08.2010, 18:47
bici-boci bici-boci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
Some programms reach a status where the programmers say "okay the programm does everything it should do and it doesn't have any known bugs so we're done with that" and then releases no new updates.
I don't think there is such a program in the world. Some programmers believe it so possibly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
JD works quite good so there isn't really a reason to wait for the next update every day
I wouldn't like Jdownloader to be abandonware.

Or your message was a humor?
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  #18  
Old 21.08.2010, 19:22
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pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
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@bici-boci
No.
I didn't wanna say that any programm is free of bugs or that JD will ever be such a programm.
I'm just asking myself why everyone expects a big update to come.
I know some good problems like Daemon Tools or QIP which i use for chatting and they also aren't updated like every day

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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  #19  
Old 21.08.2010, 20:18
bici-boci bici-boci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
@bici-boci
I'm just asking myself why everyone expects a big update to come.
GreeZ pspzockerscene
Because of the
- regular nightly versions
- the referencing of new developments, new versions in your messages

Personally i am very satisfied with JD (I use the nightly versions steadily).
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  #20  
Old 21.08.2010, 20:25
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@bici-boci

Well but the NIGHTLY is only for testing.
As written above we learn from our mistakes so we won't just release updates and updates which could also bring new bugs.
We have the NIGHTLY so new features/updates are released there and from our testers we get the feedback.
Then once everything is tested and ready a new public major update can be released.

Quote:
"- the referencing of new developments, new versions in your messages" <-- Yep but with that i mean pluginupdates and as written above pluginupdates are always needed...

GreeZ pspzockerscene
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Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
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