JDownloader Community - Appwork GmbH
 

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.10.2009, 23:05
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Exclamation reCaptcha [International]

Info about captchas!

GreeZ pspzockerscene

Last edited by pspzockerscene; 19.09.2012 at 23:59.
  #2  
Old 28.10.2009, 08:27
kewarr
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Maybe you can make captcha system for oron.com?
They use one of hardest to break captcha's:
"reCaptcha" so i have problems with coding it...

There is some download link:
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
  #3  
Old 02.11.2009, 21:34
mikebell mikebell is offline
Giga Loader
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 99
Default Why is reCAPTCHA hard to crack?

Hi guys,

I have a quick question about reCAPTCHA. Since JD can solve so many captchas, I'm wondering why it can't solve reCAPTCHA. I hope one of the captcha solving JD devs could shed some light on the issue.

From my limited understanding, reCAPTCHA gives you two words to solve and it knows what one should be: one is a known and one is an unknown word. It's usually easy to tell which one is solved because one of the words is really hard to read and that's the unknown one. If you correctly solve the known one, it sends a success and it takes note of your answer to the unknown one. When X percentage of people answer the unknown word the same way, it marks it as solved and the cycle repeats.

I know that some people have had success cracking reCAPTCHA because 4chan has cracked it during the TIME magazine vote poll.

So my question is, how can you guys solve all the weird and what looks like very difficult captchas and yet reCAPTCHA is a stumbling block? What can we do to help?

I ask because some sites like hotfile have now added it to some of its bussiest downloads.

Thanks for any insight!! :)
  #4  
Old 06.11.2009, 18:57
DigiMahn
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is not an answer to why reCaptcha is so hard to crack - but should help you better understand.
"recaptcha.net" and then naturally you would look at "recaptcha.net/learnmore.html". Google is doing this and if, with ALL their money and technology, they cannot digitize the unknown words then I doubt anyone else can.

Maybe if there was a way to just get at the known word and only attempt the other?

But, here's something I thought you may find interesting...

I have been downloading from Hot File all night -- a 4.5 GB download -- and have yet to answer a reCaptcha popup from JDownloader. Something is up and I intend to figure this out

JDownloader is downloading my reCaptcha Hot File downloads automatically!

Just to be clear - here is what I am experiencing including a link or two for testing:
  • I have logging turned completely off - I have over 7000 links stored in JDownloader and performance is slow when logging is set to FULL

  • I have ton's of Hot File links and do not have a premium account

  • Opening the links in my browser confirms that the links require reCaptcha answers to download the file

  • JDownloader prompts me for reCaptcha answers

  • I have not answered a reCaptcha prompt for over 10 hours and my Hot File downloads are automatically downloading with JDownloader

    Just to be clear - the reCaptcha prompts are being displayed for input by JDownloader. The JDownloader prompt window already contains some characters in the dialog box, but are ALWAYS wrong. The default time out of 20 seconds is ocurring and another reCaptcha is presented by JDownloader for my input (SOMETIMES!)

  • What appears to be happening is that JDownloader's reCaptcha text is being accepted! (the text that is already in the dialog box when the prompt appears)

I am trying to confirm this now, but have a while to go before another reCaptcha HotFile download is done.

I am going to try pausing JDownloader and seeing what happens if I answer the reCaptcha wrong. Maybe after a number of failed attempts HotFile allows the download anyway?
After this I am going to see what JDownloader is doing without my input - I will turn logging on FULL and restart JDownloader.

Here are some links that were downloaded overnight without my input:
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**
**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**

Last edited by DigiMahn; 06.11.2009 at 19:10.
  #5  
Old 06.11.2009, 19:52
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@DigiMahn
Hotfile sometimes wants you to type in the captcha and sometimes they let you download without typing them in so what you find out is nothing new at all!!

@mikebell
How many times did i write the reasons for not-making a Re Captcha recognition ??
WHY didn't you read THIS THREAD ?
I'll just move this thread into the captcha thread...

GreeZ pspzockerscene
EDIT

Merged the captcha threads...READ the first post so you know the status of Re Captcha!
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist

Last edited by pspzockerscene; 06.11.2009 at 20:55.
  #6  
Old 07.11.2009, 00:39
Harpoon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Using JD 0.9.421 on Ubuntu 9.04 x64

Seems like hotfile capcha becomes tough. Now it fails very often. JD pops up a screen to ask user input.
  #7  
Old 07.11.2009, 00:46
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@Harpoon
You didn't read anything, right ?
I'll close this thread now so you can read...and then i'll open it and wait if there are still users posing questions even if the answers are directly above their posts!

GreeZ pspzockerscene
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
  #8  
Old 10.12.2009, 05:15
cityguy cityguy is offline
JD Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
Default Am I missing something?

I'm trying to understand why hotfile recaptcha can't be fixed. I didn't know it was called recaptcha till just a few moments ago and as I read this thread I read various things about recaptcha but did not find and answer as to why it was uncodeable. Since you really only have to figure one side of the recaptcha and you're able to identify a captcha on it's own can't you figure out which side to fake and which to captcha? If the answer lies in the german link I followed that's not much help. While the other link "why didn't you read this thread" takes you right back to this thread.

So I guess I'll be the next person that asks the same question that never seems to get answered in this thread.
  #9  
Old 10.12.2009, 14:06
remi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

For people who don't know Google's reCAPTCHA project, please read this wikipedia entry :- hXXp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA

I'm convinced that it will be possible to recognise them. You simply need better software than what Google currently uses.

Drbits, a member of this forum, knows more about it.
  #10  
Old 10.12.2009, 15:13
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@cityguy
I posted at least 2 times reasons for why it can't be recognized
Also take a look at the captcha and think....HOW should we recognize this ?
A software doesn't work like your brain, it's "dumb" and you have to train it, Re Captcha needs real brains to enter the captchas

GreeZ pspzockerscene
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
  #11  
Old 10.12.2009, 17:27
cityguy cityguy is offline
JD Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
Default You Keep Repeating Nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
@cityguy
I posted at least 2 times reasons for why it can't be recognized
Also take a look at the captcha and think....HOW should we recognize this ?
A software doesn't work like your brain, it's "dumb" and you have to train it, Re Captcha needs real brains to enter the captchas

GreeZ pspzockerscene
I read every post you have in this thread and not one of them addresses the problem of recaptcha. I understand programming. I did it for years. The only problem is that you have to attempt to decipher two sides which are separated by white space. So you basically do a captcha twice before the submit. One of the captchas you should absolutely be able to determine since you can determine it for all other services while the other one you may or may not be able to get. As long as you get the required one the other one doesn't matter other than the fact that you must submit something as a place holder.
  #12  
Old 10.12.2009, 18:00
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@cityguy
Now again the problems:
1.You have to enter 2 words.
2.The fonts are completely dynamic, sometimes they look like this
3.All the letters got the same color AND hang together
4.dynamic angles
5.Dynamic number of letters to enter
6.So because of 1-5 you cannot just recognize them.
Other captchas have a pool or something like that, Re Captcha maybe also (but a way bigger) but the Thing is that Re Captcha doesn't use their letters our of a hardcoded database, they get them from google and got millions of them.

...so if you were a programmer you should have discovered these problems on your own and if you're still a coder TRY to crack these captchas, nothing is impossible but it's hard and our captchaexpert got problems with his computer now, also Re Captcha got the lowest priority of all captcharecognitions to come...

GreeZ pspzockerscene
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist

Last edited by pspzockerscene; 10.12.2009 at 18:02.
  #13  
Old 10.12.2009, 18:37
cityguy cityguy is offline
JD Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
Other captchas have a pool or something like that, Re Captcha maybe also (but a way bigger) but the Thing is that Re Captcha doesn't use their letters our of a hardcoded database, they get them from google and got millions of them.

...so if you were a programmer you should have discovered these problems on your own and if you're still a coder TRY to crack these captchas, nothing is impossible but it's hard and our captchaexpert got problems with his computer now, also Re Captcha got the lowest priority of all captcharecognitions to come...

GreeZ pspzockerscene
There's no reason to get nasty. I didn't realize that catcha had a specific limited database behind it. But so too would recaptcha regardless of where it resides. I'm sure Google isn't going to be quick to offer access directly into the database for our particular purpose because it would totally defeat their purpose of using the global population as it's slaves to decode books which we'll probably have to pay to read or access. Quite honestly I've always thought of them as images rather than actual words even though the end result required a word to be entered. So to me if you could take a captcha image and figure out the word then you could take a recaptcha image and do the process twice. I didn't realize that you were using a database to match-up with what was being presented. That has been the missing piece of information.
  #14  
Old 10.12.2009, 18:41
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@cityguy
I don't get nasty^^
All our captcha method use databases to work.
Maybe you know this good old russian system "C.E.S." ?!
This was a system where you could leave the computer and other users got your images and typed them in (for your downloads).
Everyone who used this got points when typing in captchas of others and lost points when others typed in captchas for him.
I hope i explained that well.
We know that this would be a possibility to help "solving" some of the unrecognized captchas but this requires much much serverpower that we don't have atm.
...just to show you another way.

GreeZ pspzockerscene
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
  #15  
Old 10.12.2009, 19:09
Jiaz's Avatar
Jiaz Jiaz is offline
JD Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 60,421
Default

im sorry but pspzocker is telling wrong information
jdanticaptcha is a collection of filter, algorithms and image matching functions. its not a database full of captchas. it a database full of letters, numbers that gets used for image matching.

recaptcha uses scanned text from real life that did not work well with already existing ocr software. so in order to be able to anticaptcha them we would have to develop a ocr software instead of the current used jdanticaptcha.

because of lack of time and time is what this needs most, an anticaptcha for recaptcha will not come in near future or at all.
__________________
JD-Dev & Server-Admin
  #16  
Old 10.12.2009, 19:22
pspzockerscene's Avatar
pspzockerscene pspzockerscene is offline
Community Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48,085
Default

@cityguy
just read what jiaz posted, i'am not an expert in this but i know that we also always have a database for every method. for everything else you gotta ask the big programmers here :D

GreeZ psp

...and surely i am sorry for telling wrong information!
__________________

Ad-free installers || Werbefreie Installer
Windows Setup<--JD2 BETA-->Linux Setup x86 || Linux Setup x64 || Mac Setup
-----=>Support Chat<=-----
Spoiler:

A users' JD crashes and the first thing to ask is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaz View Post
Do you have Nero installed?
That's true James
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Die Leute verstehen einfach nicht dass nur weil man mit einer Waffe auch auf Menschen schießen kann dass ein Schützenver​ein kein Ort für Amoklaufide​en ist
  #17  
Old 10.12.2009, 19:27
Jiaz's Avatar
Jiaz Jiaz is offline
JD Manager
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 60,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pspzockerscene View Post
@cityguy
just read what jiaz posted, i'am not an expert in this but i know that we also always have a database for every method. for everything else you gotta ask the big programmers here :D

GreeZ psp

...and surely i am sorry for telling wrong information!
yes the database contains the needed information for image matching and parameters for filters and so on
__________________
JD-Dev & Server-Admin
  #18  
Old 11.12.2009, 00:45
cityguy cityguy is offline
JD Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
Default Thank You Both

I'm just glad I understand what the issue is. Now I understand the problem of creating a recaptcha. And sometime I may get an idea while I sleep and solve the problem But it does seem rather unsolvable at current it will not be the same solution that captcha uses and I think maybe Jiaz is correct it will take some form of OCR but without knowing what the standardization might be for the day, hour or even minute by minute even that will be problematic. This is similar to the Nazi coding during WWII where the permutations were exponential.
  #19  
Old 13.12.2009, 11:27
tomd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Here's a paper from yesterday, with an example attack on recaptcha. Example code included.

**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**


5% success rate on both words, 17.5% on at least one word. And it looks like it could be improved by further tweaking.
  #20  
Old 13.12.2009, 14:42
remi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Here's a paper from yesterday, with an example attack on recaptcha. Example code included.

**External links are only visible to Support Staff****External links are only visible to Support Staff**


5% success rate on both words, 17.5% on at least one word. And it looks like it could be improved by further tweaking.
As I said in previous posts, it's just a matter of time. The more bright people are interested in working on it the sooner it will be cracked.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:57.
Provided By AppWork GmbH | Privacy | Imprint
Parts of the Design are used from Kirsch designed by Andrew & Austin
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.